Superzoom or Nikon 1 System (1 Viewer)

Link900 · May 19, 2014

Hello guys, i'm new in this forum, from months i'm thinking to buy a new camera for the purpose of birding photography, i currently have a sony nex system, but 210 mm ( 315 equivalent ) are nothing for that purpose..
So here is my indecision, i saw the recent announcement of nikon new lens 70-300 vr for nikon 1 system, and the question that turns in my head in these days is, which system is better?
It's worth to spend 1200 euros for a nikon 1 V1 + nikon 70-300 vr, instead of buyng a superzoom ( canon sx50 or Fujifilm hs50exr ) for 300/350 euros?
I have some advantage in image quality, or the nikon cx sensor is too small to see any difference?
It's better to have 1000/1200mm equivalent FOV or i can obtain more detailed photo from cropping the 810mm equivalent from nikon 1 system?
Thanks for answers!

Andy1979 · May 19, 2014

I have struggled with the same problem for the last few weeks and it really came down to how much money you want to spend. A DSLR will give better images and will capture birds in flight better than a superzoom. But, the superzoom is more versatile, so can be used on holiday or for macro photography and from what I have seen takes some pretty decent pictures at good distances. I have recently bought a Canon SX50 and pick it up today.

Link900 · May 19, 2014

Andy1979 said:
I have struggled with the same problem for the last few weeks and it really came down to how much money you want to spend. A DSLR will give better images and will capture birds in flight better than a superzoom. But, the superzoom is more versatile, so can be used on holiday or for macro photography and from what I have seen takes some pretty decent pictures at good distances. I have recently bought a Canon SX50 and pick it up today.

Obviously a dslr will take better photos, but to obtain the 1000mm equivalent with dslr equipment i have to spend thousands of euros that i don't have..
Also i don't like to walk with heavy and large equipment, so this solution it's not for me..
At the moment i don't have also the money to take the nikon 1 system combo, but i would like to know if it's worth to wait and save money for that system, instead of buying a superzoom now..
I also have a doubt on which superzoom buy between Canon sx50 hs and Fujifilm hs50exr.. canon has more reach, but fuji has more manual control, manual zoom, manual focus ring, and these thing are important to me..

gandytron · May 19, 2014

Link900 said:
Obviously a dslr will take better photos, but to obtain the 1000mm equivalent with dslr equipment i have to spend thousands of euros that i don't have..
Also i don't like to walk with heavy and large equipment, so this solution it's not for me..
At the moment i don't have also the money to take the nikon 1 system combo, but i would like to know if it's worth to wait and save money for that system, instead of buying a superzoom now..
I also have a doubt on which superzoom buy between Canon sx50 hs and Fujifilm hs50exr.. canon has more reach, but fuji has more manual control, manual zoom, manual focus ring, and these thing are important to me..

At the moment nobody knows how good the 70-300mm Nikon 1 lens will be - it will not be available until early June. However the Nikon 1 V3 body seems to be surprising a few people with its good image quality. If you don't have the money to go all out and buy the full N1 kit it may be worth trying to pick up a second hand Nikon 1 V1 (I got one new when they were about to be discontinued, and paid only about GBP 250 for it, so second hand I would guess prices are lower), and match it with a non-vr nikon zoom (eg the DSLR 70-300 via the ft-1 adapter, though you'd need to check compatibility).

Must say I am very impressed with my V1 (see these images taken with it at 2800 ISO), and in due course expect I'll move on to get the 70-300mm if it gets favourable reviews.

Link900 · May 19, 2014

gandytron said:
At the moment nobody knows how good the 70-300mm Nikon 1 lens will be - it will not be available until early June. However the Nikon 1 V3 body seems to be surprising a few people with its good image quality. If you don't have the money to go all out and buy the full N1 kit it may be worth trying to pick up a second hand Nikon 1 V1 (I got one new when they were about to be discontinued, and paid only about GBP 250 for it, so second hand I would guess prices are lower), and match it with a non-vr nikon zoom (eg the DSLR 70-300 via the ft-1 adapter, though you'd need to check compatibility).

Must say I am very impressed with my V1 (see these images taken with it at 2800 ISO), and in due course expect I'll move on to get the 70-300mm if it gets favourable reviews.

Yes as i wrote in the first post the idea was to buy the Nikon 1 V1, not the V3 ( it's better but it cost too much ), i've found one Nikon 1 V1 new for 300 euro with the kit lens..
The problem with the FT-1 adapter and the nikon dslr 70-300 vr , is that the kit become less portable, and i read that i lose the AF-C using the FT-1 adapter, and i have only center focus, right?
Nice shots, but there is too much noise for my taste..
With the nikon 1 probably i won't go over 1600 iso..
And with a superzoom i won't go over 200 iso..
In fact i think to use these camera only with good light condition.. when light is low i prefer to use my nex..

Andrew Whitehouse · May 19, 2014

Can I ask why you want to go for a compact system camera like the 1 V1 and not a basic DSLR? If you're putting a 70-300mm lens on it then the slightly larger size of a DSLR isn't really going to be that big a deal (a few hundred grams more) and the costs seem quite similar too. You'd have a much better choice of lenses too.

Link900 · May 19, 2014

Andrew Whitehouse said:
Can I ask why you want to go for a compact system camera like the 1 V1 and not a basic DSLR? If you're putting a 70-300mm lens on it then the slightly larger size of a DSLR isn't really going to be that big a deal (a few hundred grams more) and the costs seem quite similar too. You'd have a much better choice of lenses too.

Simply becouse a 70-300mm on a DSLR become a 450mm equivalent..
On a Nikon 1 V1 it become 810mm equivalent..
The goal is to reach the max focal lenght possible with the best image quality that i can afford with my budget..
Otherwise i could simply put a 300mm in front of my nex 5r to achieve 450mm equivalent..

Zackiedawg · May 19, 2014

A cheap option that might get you by would be to buy a 1.7x afocal teleeextender to put on the end of your 55-210mm NEX lens...that will extend the reach to 357mm optically, or 535mm equivalent, and still be very compact and lightweight...those extenders can usually be found in the $75-150 range...some of them are surprisingly good quality. Then you get to maintain the excellent APS-C sensor you already have on your NEX, which will still give you very reasonable cropping room. The two best teleextenders are widely agreed to be the Sony DH1758 and the Olympus T-con...though a few others also exist from Nikon, Panasonic, and Raynox which are OK as well.

I shoot with two systems - an e-mount body (previously a NEX-5N, now replaced by an A6000), and an APS-C DSLR system for which I have some longer, more dedicated birding lenses (300mm F4 + 1.4x TC, 150-600mm zoom). The NEX system is my lightweight alternative when I want to bring a second body along, or on hot or rainy days when I want a smaller, lighter kit. I use the 55-210mm e-mount lens with the Sony DH1758 1.7x TC attached, and the results are quite positive. This is my gallery of shots with the 55-210mm lens, most of which have the 1.7x TC attached...shot with the A6000 and NEX-5N:

http://www.pbase.com/zackiedawg/sel55210

Just something to consider. Otherwise, I'd probably still want to stick with the largest sensor I can - better detail, better depth of field control, and better high ISO results. So for me, APS-C would be my main choice, with the 1" Nikon sensor next, then the tiny superzoom sensors last.

Link900 · May 19, 2014

Zackiedawg said:
A cheap option that might get you by would be to buy a 1.7x afocal teleeextender to put on the end of your 55-210mm NEX lens...that will extend the reach to 357mm optically, or 535mm equivalent, and still be very compact and lightweight...those extenders can usually be found in the $75-150 range...some of them are surprisingly good quality. Then you get to maintain the excellent APS-C sensor you already have on your NEX, which will still give you very reasonable cropping room. The two best teleextenders are widely agreed to be the Sony DH1758 and the Olympus T-con...though a few others also exist from Nikon, Panasonic, and Raynox which are OK as well.

I shoot with two systems - an e-mount body (previously a NEX-5N, now replaced by an A6000), and an APS-C DSLR system for which I have some longer, more dedicated birding lenses (300mm F4 + 1.4x TC, 150-600mm zoom). The NEX system is my lightweight alternative when I want to bring a second body along, or on hot or rainy days when I want a smaller, lighter kit. I use the 55-210mm e-mount lens with the Sony DH1758 1.7x TC attached, and the results are quite positive. This is my gallery of shots with the 55-210mm lens, most of which have the 1.7x TC attached...shot with the A6000 and NEX-5N:

http://www.pbase.com/zackiedawg/sel55210

Just something to consider. Otherwise, I'd probably still want to stick with the largest sensor I can - better detail, better depth of field control, and better high ISO results. So for me, APS-C would be my main choice, with the 1" Nikon sensor next, then the tiny superzoom sensors last.

Hi @Zackiedawg i read about your combination of sel55210 + telextender, in the dpreview forum a lot of months ago, i was impressed by your result and as first option for birding, at the time when i read you, i tought to follow your way and buy a telextender, but i didn't ever find the one you use, then i saw the olympus TCon 1.7x, but somewhere i read that by attaching one of these at the end of the barrel of the sel55210 i could broke the optics due to the weight of the telexender, so i didn't bought one, and i started to see other options!
But if you say that there is no sort of problem, i can follow this way.. i won't have 800 or 1000mm of focal lenght but i can crop something with the nex sensor.. ( and maybe i can crop more if i update to a sony a6000 )..
Another solution that has a similar cost of Nikon 1 v1 + Nikkor 70-300 vr, is the olympus Om-D Em-10 + Olympus 75-300mm ( 600mm equivalent )..
But again the question is the same, bigger sensor or bigger focal lenght?

Zackiedawg · May 19, 2014

I personally don't worry too much about the weight of the teleextender on the lens, mostly because I just don't leave it hanging there unsuspended - if you keep the lens compacted when walking around (rather than zoomed all the way where the barrel is extended), it can support the weight, and if you keep your hand under the lens barrel when shooting with it extended, you can keep the weight off the lens mechanism. I've had mine attached for a few years now, almost all the time, and the lens is still fine - I just take a little extra caution to always keep it supported when carrying the camera.

The focal length vs sensor size is always a tough argument. I'd say if I was shooting 100% of the time in perfect daylight, and the focal length was 4x or more than I could get with the large sensor option, I'd consider the superzoom option more...but as soon as the light gets less than perfect, or high ISO needed, or ability to change out lenses for different purposes...and for achieving better subject isolation, I start to prefer larger sensors. And if the focal length is 1/2 as much as the superzoom or less, then I feel like the croppability of the large sensor can overcome the shorter focal length...at least for my use. The ideal combination is huge focal length AND a big sensor - which is why I don't mind lugging around a 150-600mm lens on my DSLR, that weighs in over 10Lbs and several feet in length! Sometimes you just need the reach, AND the sensor quality!

Link900 · May 19, 2014

Zackiedawg said:
I personally don't worry too much about the weight of the teleextender on the lens, mostly because I just don't leave it hanging there unsuspended - if you keep the lens compacted when walking around (rather than zoomed all the way where the barrel is extended), it can support the weight, and if you keep your hand under the lens barrel when shooting with it extended, you can keep the weight off the lens mechanism. I've had mine attached for a few years now, almost all the time, and the lens is still fine - I just take a little extra caution to always keep it supported when carrying the camera.

The focal length vs sensor size is always a tough argument. I'd say if I was shooting 100% of the time in perfect daylight, and the focal length was 4x or more than I could get with the large sensor option, I'd consider the superzoom option more...but as soon as the light gets less than perfect, or high ISO needed, or ability to change out lenses for different purposes...and for achieving better subject isolation, I start to prefer larger sensors. And if the focal length is 1/2 as much as the superzoom or less, then I feel like the croppability of the large sensor can overcome the shorter focal length...at least for my use. The ideal combination is huge focal length AND a big sensor - which is why I don't mind lugging around a 150-600mm lens on my DSLR, that weighs in over 10Lbs and several feet in length! Sometimes you just need the reach, AND the sensor quality!

If there aren't weight or budget problems, this is for sure the best solution

..
Sadly on the olympus website the TCon 17x at the moment is out of stock, it's the cheapest option 200 euros, to achieve 527mm equivalent fov..
And maybe if sony decides to produce a 300mm lens for the nex system ( or maybe if i buy la-ea2 adapter and tamron 70-300vc ) with the teleconverter it would become a 765mm equivalent.. could reach almost the same focal lenght of the nikon 1 system.. not bad..

Tarsiger · May 19, 2014

I guess the advantage of the Nikon 1 series is its compatibility with so many other Nikon lenses should you decide to go down the DSLR route at a later date.
Russ

gandytron · May 20, 2014

Link900 said:
Yes as i wrote in the first post the idea was to buy the Nikon 1 V1, not the V3 ( it's better but it cost too much ), i've found one Nikon 1 V1 new for 300 euro with the kit lens..
The problem with the FT-1 adapter and the nikon dslr 70-300 vr , is that the kit become less portable, and i read that i lose the AF-C using the FT-1 adapter, and i have only center focus, right?
Nice shots, but there is too much noise for my taste..
With the nikon 1 probably i won't go over 1600 iso..
And with a superzoom i won't go over 200 iso..
In fact i think to use these camera only with good light condition.. when light is low i prefer to use my nex..

There is a firmware update that gives you AF-C, but you are correct that you only have centre point focus (that will be a big advantage of the 70-300 Nikon 1 series lens when it appears, I suppose).

The shots I linked to are noisy because when using the V1 in "Electronic Hi" shutter mode the camera sets a mandatory 2800 ISO, but this is a trade off as you get lightening-fast fps and you can handhold the camera easily (my 300mm f4 prime lens doesn't have VR). I'll admit that I have not spent enough time using the V1 at lower ISOs for these reasons, but probably should.

HantaYo · May 20, 2014

This weekend I tried out several bridge cameras. The Canon's SX50 view finder is very out dated to current models. I just could not buy it due to the view finder. I bought the Olympus SP100EE. Tried it out for a day and returned it. The image quality just is not there for me on bridge cameras compared to larger sensor sensor cameras. At this time, I would stick with Sony Nex.

Link900 · May 20, 2014

HantaYo said:
This weekend I tried out several bridge cameras. The Canon's SX50 view finder is very out dated to current models. I just could not buy it due to the view finder. I bought the Olympus SP100EE. Tried it out for a day and returned it. The image quality just is not there for me on bridge cameras compared to larger sensor sensor cameras. At this time, I would stick with Sony Nex.

Found a Olympus TCon 17 for 165 euros.. i'm thinking to buy it and stick with the nex..

Link900 · May 20, 2014

Zackiedawg said:
A cheap option that might get you by would be to buy a 1.7x afocal teleeextender to put on the end of your 55-210mm NEX lens...that will extend the reach to 357mm optically, or 535mm equivalent, and still be very compact and lightweight...those extenders can usually be found in the $75-150 range...some of them are surprisingly good quality. Then you get to maintain the excellent APS-C sensor you already have on your NEX, which will still give you very reasonable cropping room. The two best teleextenders are widely agreed to be the Sony DH1758 and the Olympus T-con...though a few others also exist from Nikon, Panasonic, and Raynox which are OK as well.

I shoot with two systems - an e-mount body (previously a NEX-5N, now replaced by an A6000), and an APS-C DSLR system for which I have some longer, more dedicated birding lenses (300mm F4 + 1.4x TC, 150-600mm zoom). The NEX system is my lightweight alternative when I want to bring a second body along, or on hot or rainy days when I want a smaller, lighter kit. I use the 55-210mm e-mount lens with the Sony DH1758 1.7x TC attached, and the results are quite positive. This is my gallery of shots with the 55-210mm lens, most of which have the 1.7x TC attached...shot with the A6000 and NEX-5N:

http://www.pbase.com/zackiedawg/sel55210

Just something to consider. Otherwise, I'd probably still want to stick with the largest sensor I can - better detail, better depth of field control, and better high ISO results. So for me, APS-C would be my main choice, with the 1" Nikon sensor next, then the tiny superzoom sensors last.

Just to be sure, the olympus TCon you're talking about is this right?
http://www.olympus-europa.com/site/en/c/cameras_accessories/digital_cameras_accessories/digital_other_accessories/tcon_17x/index.html

Zackiedawg · May 20, 2014

Yes - that one should work. It has 55mm threads, and your 55-210mm lens has 49mm threads - so all you'll need in order to attach it is a 49-55mm step-up ring, which you should be able to find for $10 (US) or less.

It is a little heavier than the Sony DH1758, but optical quality should be similar. The main thing is to just never leave the lens zoomed out all the way with the teleextender attached and unsupported - always carry the camera by the lens barrel and keep one hand under the lens/converter when shooting, and you should be fine.

Link900 · May 21, 2014

Zackiedawg said:
Yes - that one should work. It has 55mm threads, and your 55-210mm lens has 49mm threads - so all you'll need in order to attach it is a 49-55mm step-up ring, which you should be able to find for $10 (US) or less.

It is a little heavier than the Sony DH1758, but optical quality should be similar. The main thing is to just never leave the lens zoomed out all the way with the teleextender attached and unsupported - always carry the camera by the lens barrel and keep one hand under the lens/converter when shooting, and you should be fine.

Ok nice, for the moment i think i will follow this way, i can't afford anything better before the end of july when i will start my trip on the dolomites..
In the future i hope to get a better solution, if you had to choose between Nikon 1 v1 with 70-300 or Olympus Om-D Em-10 with 75-300, which one do you would pick?
Considering the price it's the same?
I think you will answer Olympus becouse of the larger sensor ( double of the cx form factor ) and also becouse of IBIS ( a really good ibis ), but what about autofocus? It's better the olympus or the nikon?

Zackiedawg · May 21, 2014

I probably would lean to the Olympus of that choice...as you stated, it's the sensor size that decides it for me. I went with the Sony A6000 mainly for that reason - to have the larger sensor that I already have on my DSLR. Both are fine I'm sure for most general birding needs...my NEX-5N couldn't do any tracking focus, but I could still shoot birds both sitting and in-flight - it just took a little more work and attention. The A6000 is much much better for tracking focus - it actually works. The latest round of mirrorless cams, like the A6000, Fuji X-T1, Oly EM-1, and Panny GH4 seem to have all either closed the gap with or caught up to the Nikon 1 in continuous focus speed and ability...probably the Nikon got there first because it was a little easier to achieve with the smaller sensor, lower resolution, and greater depth of field...now that a few generations have gone by, they're figuring out how to fine-tune the PDAF-on-sensor systems for the larger sensors.

dannat · May 22, 2014

if you're looking at super zoom try the panasonic fz200

i had the nikon 1 -it doesn't deliver d-slr quality, but sits between P&S and D-slr's.

it you're looking tele extenders for the nex, look around for the nikon ED varieties, i have the 1.5x ED which fits nicely on the Nex -but the 1.7x ED (tc17e) is reportedly better (& much more expensive)

Superzoom or Nikon 1 System (1 Viewer)

Member

Well-known member

Member

Well-known member

Member

Professor of Listening

Member

Well-known member

Member

Well-known member

Member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Member

Member

Well-known member

Member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Similar threads

Users who are viewing this thread