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Black-spot Chestnut in Kent (1 Viewer)

tom tams

Well-known member
A Black-spot Chestnut Conistra rubiginosa re-identified from a photo was trapped by Norman Winterman in Dartford, Kent, on the 6/11/2011. This constitutes the the first British record.
Amazingly a second individual was also trapped near-by last night (08/11) by James Hunter et al

The original thread can be viewed under Red-headed Chestnut: http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=215660

Tom
 
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A Black-spot Chestnut Conistra rubiginosa re-identified from a photo was trapped by Norman Winter in Dartford, Kent, on the 6/11/2011. This constitutes the the first British record.
Amazingly a second individual was also trapped near-by last night (08/11) by Paul Chapman et al

The original thread can be viewed under Red-headed Chestnut: http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=215660

Tom

Hi - well done for starting a new thread Tom. Long time no see, by the way. Hope you are well.

Trapper of the first is Norman Winterman and the garden in which the 2nd was trapped belongs to James Hunter. Well done to both and to Paul.

Cheers, Andy.
 
Indeed. Undoubtedly the second is J Hunter et al. James' trap. Very many thanks indeed to Norm and James.

All the best
 
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Hi Andy / Paul

I have amended my post for accuracy.

Out of interest do you know how far apart the trapping sites were

Andy I am well thank you
 
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Is it worth considering a new thread titled 'what could turn up' and 'when'? It seems that this moth was on the cards with a November arrival not unexpected.

What else could turn up and what are the ID features of those moths?

Note the winds up to Sunday at least have a North African origin.

Cheers,

Andy.
 
Is it worth considering a new thread titled 'what could turn up' and 'when'? It seems that this moth was on the cards with a November arrival not unexpected.

What else could turn up and what are the ID features of those moths?

Note the winds up to Sunday at least have a North African origin.

Cheers,

Andy.

Andy

I think that there are effectively two dynamics here. There are genuine migrants/vagrants and there are colonists.

On the first category, a flick through Robineau (the French equivalent of Skinner) will give you a significant headache at the number of 'lookalike' species on the continent on things that you would simply not look at twice from an identification point of view on a busy night because there are no British confusion species - Broad-bordered Yellow Underwing; Annulet; Netted Pug; etc. On that front, occasionally, something begins to be highlighted such as The Feline (Puss Moth look-a-like) or The Sorcerer (Alchymist look-a-like) which brings things to people's radar but even on things like Flame Brocade and Clancy's Rustic there are confusion species which may be overlooked easily. For instance, on Beautiful Marbled, the 'first' for Britain was soon discovered not to be the first for Britain when an earlier collected Purple Marbled was reidentified. Most people had never previously heard of purpurina. So getting to grips with cryptic continental species which may otherwise be overlooked is a considerable task.

On the second category, insect populations move much more quickly than larger species. Conistra rubiginosa is a clasic example. I quote from a message on the migrant moths e-mail group:-

"Hi all

It may be of interest to you, that in my country Denmark this species is
not regarded as a true migrant but as a very clear expansionist species.
When I started being interested in moths 35-40 years ago it only occurred
in our eastern most island of Bornholm, then it invaded a small island in
Kattegat (probably from Sweden), and after year 2000 it has spread to all
the major islands and started to appear in Jylland (west) as well. Where I
live in Copenhagen it has been clearly the most abundant late flying
noctuid for at least 5 year easily outnumbering C. vaccinii and E.
transversa.

I think it is quite likely, that you will find that you have a new
colonizer rather than a vagrant.

By the way: It is much easier to find with sugar ropes than ligth.

best wishes

Jan F. Rasmussen"

In that type of situation, French, Dutch and other European moth-trappers may be able to provide an early warning system which is picked up. See Jon Clifton's prediction of this week's events in the Norfolk Moths Group Spring newsletter (pages 12, 13 and 15):-

http://www.norfolkmoths.co.uk/newsletters/79.pdf

All the best
 
Andy

I think that there are effectively two dynamics here. There are genuine migrants/vagrants and there are colonists.

On the first category, a flick through Robineau (the French equivalent of Skinner) will give you a significant headache at the number of 'lookalike' species on the continent on things that you would simply not look at twice from an identification point of view on a busy night because there are no British confusion species - Broad-bordered Yellow Underwing; Annulet; Netted Pug; etc. On that front, occasionally, something begins to be highlighted such as The Feline (Puss Moth look-a-like) or The Sorcerer (Alchymist look-a-like) which brings things to people's radar but even on things like Flame Brocade and Clancy's Rustic there are confusion species which may be overlooked easily. For instance, on Beautiful Marbled, the 'first' for Britain was soon discovered not to be the first for Britain when an earlier collected Purple Marbled was reidentified. Most people had never previously heard of purpurina. So getting to grips with cryptic continental species which may otherwise be overlooked is a considerable task.

On the second category, insect populations move much more quickly than larger species. Conistra rubiginosa is a clasic example. I quote from a message on the migrant moths e-mail group:-

"Hi all

It may be of interest to you, that in my country Denmark this species is
not regarded as a true migrant but as a very clear expansionist species.
When I started being interested in moths 35-40 years ago it only occurred
in our eastern most island of Bornholm, then it invaded a small island in
Kattegat (probably from Sweden), and after year 2000 it has spread to all
the major islands and started to appear in Jylland (west) as well. Where I
live in Copenhagen it has been clearly the most abundant late flying
noctuid for at least 5 year easily outnumbering C. vaccinii and E.
transversa.

I think it is quite likely, that you will find that you have a new
colonizer rather than a vagrant.

By the way: It is much easier to find with sugar ropes than ligth.

best wishes

Jan F. Rasmussen"

In that type of situation, French, Dutch and other European moth-trappers may be able to provide an early warning system which is picked up. See Jon Clifton's prediction of this week's events in the Norfolk Moths Group Spring newsletter (pages 12, 13 and 15):-

http://www.norfolkmoths.co.uk/newsletters/79.pdf

All the best

Thanks Paul. One day I'll get into moths myself! Hopefully this info will be useful to those what is.

No more Chestnuts since so I reckon they were migrants. An astonishing coincidence that the 2nd should fly in as we were watching the 1st and surely one for mothing folklore....
 
In Belgium also this species has become more common, it is now a rather common winter garden species. This map is showing moth trap activity in winter rather than the presence of the species in Belgium.
 
For the third year in a row Black Spotted Chestnut has been trapped in the Dartford area of NW Kent.

There will be a viewing on Sunday 24 Nov 13

Please PM if you wish to attend for further information ( I have moved house since the first event )

Regards

James
 
Conistra rubiginosa

Very interesting find, James
And the photo looks very different from and much more attractive than the pinned specimens in 'Macrolepidoptera of Hungary' (Varga Zoltan, 2012) and 'Guide des Papillons Nocturnes de France' (Roland Robineau,2007) which are what I use for non-British species ID here in Hungary.
The French book says (since that's where it may have come from, unless the Belgian poster earlier has made a prior claim!LOL!) in my rough translation:

"Mediterranean-Asiatic. It is found throughout large parts of Europe. In France, it is very widespread. It has a very flexible ecology, and is found in all habitats, including towns. The caterpillar, like numerous other Conistras, lives in wooded and bushy areas, and completes its life cycle in low plants. Flight period: IX-IV. Univoltine species, the adult hibernates and flies again in spring."

best wishes

David
 
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