"Northumberland Honey Buzzard" on video (1 Viewer)

John Cantelo · Oct 2, 2004

As promised Nick Rossiter has now put video footage on his Honey Buzzards website of a bird video'd in Northumberland. I shan't prejudice things by saying what I think, but it would be interesting to hear what others think about the identity of the bird in this clip, John

StuartReeves · Oct 2, 2004

As I'm sure John meant to mention, the video can be found at : http://www.nrossiter.supanet.com/hb/id.htm

I can see why you have brought this to our attention John, for a Honey it is remarkably keen on soaring with its wings raised...

Nick Rossiter · Oct 2, 2004

Must be that time of year for debate on HBs again!

I think it's a little dated to think CBuzz raised and HBuzz flat. Juvenile CBuzz can soar on flat wings and HBuzz of any age can raise the wings slightly (but no kink at the elbow) particularly at low altitude, when starting a soar. There's a figure in Forsman (Fig 14, p.31) which shows what I mean.

By the way I never promised any video!

Cheers ... Nick

Andrew Rowlands · Oct 2, 2004

Nick Rossiter said:
Must be that time of year for debate on HBs again!

I think it's a little dated to think CBuzz raised and HBuzz flat. Juvenile CBuzz can soar on flat wings and HBuzz of any age can raise the wings slightly (but no kink at the elbow) particularly at low altitude, when starting a soar. There's a figure in Forsman (Fig 14, p.31) which shows what I mean.

By the way I never promised any video!

Cheers ... Nick

Hi nick,

Nice to see you still have a Common Buzzard labelled as Honey on your id page....

Video doesn't seem to be good enough to prove Honey....

Regards,

Andy.

Nick Rossiter · Oct 2, 2004

Nice to see that you still lack any substance in your comments, Andy.

Andrew Rowlands · Oct 2, 2004

Nick Rossiter said:
Nice to see that you still lack any substance in your comments, Andy.

Nick,

I've given you the reasons in my previous comments on your site, it's up to you if you want to go back and read them this time. What substance would you like? - Your video technique is crap? Had you bothered to reply to my later emails, you may not need to be making snide remarks now.

Andy.

StuartReeves · Oct 2, 2004

Nick Rossiter said:
Must be that time of year for debate on HBs again!

I think it's a little dated to think CBuzz raised and HBuzz flat. Juvenile CBuzz can soar on flat wings and HBuzz of any age can raise the wings slightly (but no kink at the elbow) particularly at low altitude, when starting a soar. There's a figure in Forsman (Fig 14, p.31) which shows what I mean.

To quote Forsman " Honey Buzzards soar on horizontal, flat wings, and even if the wings are slightly lifted at times, they maintain the flat appearance." This accords with my experience; I have never seen one with the wings held upwards as in the video. The flapping flight at the beginning of the sequence also looks more like Common than Honey.

Stuart

Andrew Rowlands · Oct 2, 2004

Nick Rossiter said:
By the way I never promised any video!

Hmmm....

It is planned to get some video evidence in 2004 to capture the jizz.

- from Nicks id page.

No, but you publicised the fact that you were planning to!

Andy.

Nick Rossiter · Oct 2, 2004

Stuart, the bird is banking quite steeply in its initial soaring so one wing is obviously raised at this point (as in an aeroplane). The wings are completely flat at some points in the soar and importantly there is never a kink at the elbow. Forsman's Figure 14 does show a definite lift. I find that HBuzz have quite variable wing positioning at the very start of a soar (like this one), becoming flatter and more stable as they gain height. This one was just flying up into a moderate north westerly breeze, catching it above the trees, which was causing it to change its profile rapidly. There’s a nice bit of tail flexing in the second circuit.

The flapping at the start is out of focus but such deep flapping I would associate with HBuzz rather than CBuzz which has a narrower amplitude (unless it is carrying something).

Andy, you're right. I did make that promise. It was a bit rash as at the time I did not even have a camcorder but I did puchase one in the end. I'll be the first to admit that I'm a novice at it. The birds never appear for long enough and fly far too high for any sensible zoom, there are too many trees and the light and the birds are never where you want them!

How about some video from the Welsh HBuzz study area?

Cheers ... Nick

Andrew Rowlands · Oct 2, 2004

Nick Rossiter said:
Nice to see that you still lack any substance in your comments, Andy.

Is this attachment substantial enough for you, Nick? Honey Buzzard you say?

Andy.

Andrew Rowlands · Oct 2, 2004

Nick Rossiter said:
How about some video from the Welsh HBuzz study area?

Cheers ... Nick

There is some amateur footage that I've seen, it's good too.

S4C broadcast a half-hour program on Honey Buzzards with Iolo Williams (and SJR I think) from the same area, a few years ago; perhaps you should ask for a copy, you may learn something about Honey Buzzards.

Andy.

Andrew Rowlands · Oct 2, 2004

Nick Rossiter said:
Andy, you're right. I did make that promise.

Perhaps an apology to Mr. Cantelo is in order, then?

Andy.

StuartReeves · Oct 2, 2004

If the video does show a Honey, which I doubt, it is of no value for identification purposes as it does not demonstrate any of the characteristic flight jizz of Honey Buzzard. To all intents and purposes the bird in the video is indistinguishable from Common Buzzard.

Stuart

mountain man · Oct 2, 2004

Why don't you guys swap numbers or use the private messages and argue this off forum? Cuz it's sure making dull reading.

Tommo

Cuckoo-shrike · Oct 2, 2004

I can't believe this is still going on. I wasn't able to download the video footage but is the bird shown in post #10 a still from it? If so: Nick, IT'S A COMMON BUZZARD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Andy

Andrew Rowlands · Oct 2, 2004

Aquila said:
I can't believe this is still going on. I wasn't able to download the video footage but is the bird shown in post #10 a still from it? If so: Nick, IT'S A COMMON BUZZARD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Andy

No it's a 'Honey Buzzard' still from Nick's site! (to subtantiate my first comment in this thread).

Andy.

Nick Rossiter · Oct 2, 2004

Stuart, thanks for your opinion but I have responded to your technical criticisms.

Aquilla, that still was not from the video. You can play the video under XP with Windows Media Player (free update from Windows Updates).

John, my apologies for doubting your claim on my promise to provide video.

Andy, it would be nice to see a few excerpts on the web.

Tom, agreed -- it's football time!

Cheers ... Nick

Cuckoo-shrike · Oct 2, 2004

Andrew Rowlands said:
No it's a 'Honey Buzzard' still from Nick's site! (to subtantiate my first comment in this thread).

Andy.

Wherever it's from, it's a Common Buzzard, obviously. Sorry Nick, when I play the video clip I get sounds but no picture. The stills are pretty inconclusive though.
Andy

Steve · Oct 2, 2004

The old HB Chestnut, is it autumn already? I trust humour and Polite cut and thrust will prevail this year???

Edward woodwood · Oct 2, 2004

you'll be lucky i reckon Steve

looks like the guys are carrying on where they left off

all i have to say on the matter is HA HA HA HA HA HA

"Northumberland Honey Buzzard" on video (1 Viewer)

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