Eagle owl shot dead (1 Viewer)

Woodchatshrike · Jan 27, 2006

From Birdguides this lunchtime.

Eagle Owl Shot: the female of the pair which became famous in November when they starred in a BBC documentary called Return of the Eagle Owl has been found shot dead. An autopsy found the bird's body contained a large amount of heavy-gauge shot. Wildlife officer PC Mark Rasbeary said the bird had either died when it was shot or starved to death because the pellets meant it was unable to feed. He said "Everybody involved has been sickened by the death. It is as if they are sticking two fingers up at us after the documentary went out." A police investigation has been launched.

timmyjones · Jan 27, 2006

Seen as im sure the guy said it would be legal to do so as they arent proctcted on the british list and there are some farmers that belive that they can take lambs then well...

s.g. · Jan 27, 2006

Timmy,
Just after the program protection was given.

S. G.

KnockerNorton · Jan 27, 2006

See the thread in the Rare Birds section. But here's my post from there, just to clear this up:

I'm sat 50 feet from the body, which is in the freezer round the corner, and I spoke to the guy who did the autopsy, and it was not full of shot at all. It had 2 shot embedded in the pectorals. This is not a lethal wound at all. You'd be surprised at the number of birds flying around with shot in them, and they are fine. It just means that somebody had a pot shot at it at some point. the shot looked like they could be recent, but the body was in such a state that it was impossible to say. So, these shot could have been there for years. There was no way to tell the cause of death, but it is no way certain that it was killed by being shot (e.g. if a shot had passed through a vital area of the body and lost out the other side, although you'd expect a lot more shot in the rest of the body if this was the case). the cause of death was left undetermined, but seeing as the old bird was 9 years old, it could have been literally anything: Old age (was she 20? who knows!), disease, injury from something else. Impossible to say. That newspaper report is seriosuly overstating the facts, that much IS certain. And to assume that a local has recently gone there and shot it would be quite inappropriate.

timmyjones · Jan 27, 2006

Oh so it was against the law then and she may not have died from being shot but surly they can tell if it had a disease from blood tests etc

Egret · Jan 27, 2006

timmyjones said:
Oh so it was against the law then and she may not have died from being shot but surly they can tell if it had a disease from blood tests etc

I'm afraid it's only on the telly that post mortems/blood tests/DNA etc. always provide an answer. Same rules apply as for us humans; sometimes you get a definitive answer; sometimes you get a possible answer(s) and sometimes you are left wondering.

Andy

scampo · Jan 28, 2006

Poecile said:
See the thread in the Rare Birds section. But here's my post from there, just to clear this up:

I'm sat 50 feet from the body, which is in the freezer round the corner, and I spoke to the guy who did the autopsy, and it was not full of shot at all. It had 2 shot embedded in the pectorals. This is not a lethal wound at all. You'd be surprised at the number of birds flying around with shot in them, and they are fine. It just means that somebody had a pot shot at it at some point. the shot looked like they could be recent, but the body was in such a state that it was impossible to say. So, these shot could have been there for years. There was no way to tell the cause of death, but it is no way certain that it was killed by being shot (e.g. if a shot had passed through a vital area of the body and lost out the other side, although you'd expect a lot more shot in the rest of the body if this was the case). the cause of death was left undetermined, but seeing as the old bird was 9 years old, it could have been literally anything: Old age (was she 20? who knows!), disease, injury from something else. Impossible to say. That newspaper report is seriosuly overstating the facts, that much IS certain. And to assume that a local has recently gone there and shot it would be quite inappropriate.

That's very interesting. I teach Media Studies and I am becoming seriously worried if we can believe anything we are told by that increasingly disreputable organ of disinformation.

KnockerNorton · Jan 30, 2006

scampo said:
That's very interesting. I teach Media Studies and I am becoming seriously worried if we can believe anything we are told by that increasingly disreputable organ of disinformation.

The statement came from the Police! That's the worrying thing. I think/hope, bizarrely, that they just misinterpretted it, but there's a big dose of spin added in there somethere.

timmyjones: the bird was half-rotted -there was too much decay for detailed tests. It had been dead at least 3 weeks.

John Olley · Jan 30, 2006

Eagle Owl

Woodchatshrike said:
From Birdguides this lunchtime.

There seems to mixed messages regarding the death of the yorkshire Eagle Owl. Originally it was the female from this site that the press stated was shot but recent conversations i have had with local raptor enthusiasts and professionals state that the bird found shot was picked up on Holy Island in Northumberland. If this is the case then where has this bird come from there are opinions thet there is a breeding pair in the Norhtumberland area? Has anybody else got news regarding the situation.

John Olley.

KnockerNorton · Jan 30, 2006

John Olley said:
Woodchatshrike said:

From Birdguides this lunchtime.

There seems to mixed messages regarding the death of the yorkshire Eagle Owl. Originally it was the female from this site that the press stated was shot but recent conversations i have had with local raptor enthusiasts and professionals state that the bird found shot was picked up on Holy Island in Northumberland. If this is the case then where has this bird come from there are opinions thet there is a breeding pair in the Norhtumberland area? Has anybody else got news regarding the situation.

John Olley.

Click to expand...

Paperwork with the autopsy says it's the Yorkshire female.

David · Jan 30, 2006

Poecile said:
Paperwork with the autopsy says it's the Yorkshire female.

A email to the UK Birdnet would appear to clarify the matter:

Your pager has reported something that is incorrect. It's like the report of the dead bird on Holy Island the other week being ringed in Yorkshire. There are so many rumours going about and these are being reported by some as fact. As far as people have found out a dead Eagle Owl was found on Holy Island.

From The Times of London, yesteday

"The dead bird was discovered recently but is thought to have died before Christmas. The body contained a large amount of heavy-gauge shot, which is normally used to kill foxes. Her gut and gizzard were empty of food, which suggests that the wound may have left her unable to hunt. "

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-2013069,00.html

Also http://archive.thisisthenortheast.co.uk/2006/1/27/217118.html

They are both a good summary of the salient points of the PM result on the bird I have in front of me!

David

KnockerNorton · Jan 30, 2006

David said:
A email to the UK Birdnet would appear to clarify the matter:

David

That's not clarified anything for me! It seems to be saying that the reports in those links are correct, and that they personally carried out the PM. That simply cannot be the case. Here is an email I received this morning from the guy who did the PM (which was carried out about 2 weeks ago):

"Hmm.. this sounds like exaggeration [re the reports].

The bird was in a very decomposed state making accurate diagnosis difficult. We concluded that the bird had *possibly* died
due to being shot. We found two large gauge shot in the carcass (one in sternum). There wasn't any other obvious injuries. However soft tissue damage would have been very difficult to observe given the state of the carcass.

The bird was found near Catterick , N. Yorks.

Hope this clears up the matter."

Keith Reeder · Jan 30, 2006

Man, there has been more speculation and supposition about this bird since it died than there was when it was alive - and there was far too much then!

There is clearly no way to be certain about what killed it, and there seems to be nothing to be gained from guesswork.

Speaking of which - the "This is the North East" news article has more fiction in it than a Terry Pratchett book...

David · Jan 30, 2006

Poecile said:
That's not clarified anything for me! It seems to be saying that the reports in those links are correct, and that they personally carried out the PM. That simply cannot be the case. Here is an email I received this morning from the guy who did the PM (which was carried out about 2 weeks ago):

No - what I quoted was (I did not name names for obvious data prot. reasons)

They are both a good summary of the salient points of the PM result on the bird I have in front of me!

The person I quoted stated that he had a copy of the report in front of him. Why should he lie about that? Nothing was said about him "carrying it (the PM) out"

"Died before Christmas" is much the same as "decomposed"

"heavy gauge shot" = "large gauge shot"

What's the problem - apart from an illegally killed Eagle Owl which we all condemn.

This discussion could be brought up to date by publishing the PM report (or the relevant parts of it) in a little more detail. Won't catch the culprit(s) though I fear.

David · Jan 30, 2006

Keith Reeder said:
Man, there has been more speculation and supposition about this bird since it died than there was when it was alive - and there was far too much then!

There is clearly no way to be certain about what killed it, and there seems to be nothing to be gained from guesswork.

Speaking of which - the "This is the North East" news article has more fiction in it than a Terry Pratchett book...

Don't shoot the messenger - sorry I brought the subject up at all :C

KnockerNorton · Jan 31, 2006

David said:
No - what I quoted was (I did not name names for obvious data prot. reasons)

The person I quoted stated that he had a copy of the report in front of him. Why should he lie about that? Nothing was said about him "carrying it (the PM) out"

"Died before Christmas" is much the same as "decomposed"

"heavy gauge shot" = "large gauge shot"

What's the problem - apart from an illegally killed Eagle Owl which we all condemn.

This discussion could be brought up to date by publishing the PM report (or the relevant parts of it) in a little more detail. Won't catch the culprit(s) though I fear.

No need to get het up, wasn't having a pop at you. Just read it wrongly, that's all. The problem I have with all this is the talk of "large amounts of heavy guage shot", which is clearly meant to suggets that the bird was "shot dead". That is complete bollox, as the bird had just 2 shot in it, and it was quite likely that it didn't kill it. The PM report was inconclusive, and to suggest anything else is irresponsible, because people are getting blamed up there, and with certain nutters in the world who are prepared to get violent over things like that, it's just plain wrong..

David · Jan 31, 2006

Poecile said:
No need to get het up, wasn't having a pop at you. Just read it wrongly, that's all. The problem I have with all this is the talk of "large amounts of heavy guage shot", which is clearly meant to suggets that the bird was "shot dead". ... .....

No problems here - just wanted to put the record straight from my end.

David

Keith Reeder · Jan 31, 2006

David,

my comment wasn't directed at you - I'm simply agreeing with Poecile that the only facts we have about the bird are:

it was here;
now it's dead.

That's literally all we can say for sure about this bird.

And the amount of utterly groundless speculation in the article I refer to about EO's supposed previous UK breeding status and the so-called growing evidence that they "could be arriving on the wing from mainland Europe", is irritating in the extreme.

London Birder · Jan 31, 2006

another 'on the nail' post from Keith :clap:

Blackstart · Jan 31, 2006

Keith Reeder said:
David,

my comment wasn't directed at you - I'm simply agreeing with Poecile that the only facts we have about the bird are:

it was here;
now it's dead.

That's literally all we can say for sure about this bird.

And that it was shot.

Someone was out hunting pheasants and the Eagle Owl just got in the way, yeah, that's it. Someone didn't purposely shoot at the bird, and if someone did, it surely wasn't in or near the bird's territory. Probably happened while it was on winter holiday in the Algarve.

-Adam

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