Abbe-Koenig prisms in x32 models? (1 Viewer)

[Swissboy]

Are there any binoculars with Abbe-Koenig prisms that have objectives of less than 40 millimeters? I have several Zeiss FL models, but despite being excellent, the "non-Abbe" x32 strikes me as so much less exciting than the x42 models with Abbe-Koenig prisms. I understand that there is the argument that the smaller models would not gain that much yet be relatively bulky. But since Zeiss introduced the SF x32 models that are relatively large, the bulk argument seems a bit moot to me.

 

[John A Roberts]

Hi Swissboy,

As far as I know, the most recent example from a quality manufacturer is from well over 50 years ago! . . .

The pre-WWII Hensoldt Dialyt line included both 6x30 and 8x30 versions, and these were also offered when production recommenced in 1948.
See a page from a 1953 pamphlet at: http://home.europa.com/~telscope/temp/Hensoldt.1953.2.jpg

By 1956 the Dialyt line had been upgraded and there was instead an 8x32 which continued until production ceased in 1964. See both:
• a page from a 1960 pamphlet (a 1956 pamphlet in German has the same details); and
• a specification page from a 1963 US price list.
Both are from a selection of Hensoldt material at that great resource Miniature Binoculars: https://www.miniaturebinoculars.com/part4/Page1604.htm

And also see a cross-section of the 8x32 from a Japanese site at: 『HENSOLDT WETZLAR 6×42 Jagd Dialyt ～ アッベ・ケーニッヒ』


. . . though others such as Frank may be aware of later offerings (?).


John

 

[Sebzwo]

Fantastic stuff. Thanks for sharing. Those were the days.

 

[John A Roberts]

And in terms of size, see the 1950’s A-K prism Hensoldt Dialyt 8x32 vs the current state-of-the-art S-P prism Zeiss SF and the Swarovski NL 8x32’s.
It’s from Gijs most recent test of 100 years of 8x30/ 8x32’s at: Verrekijker testen | House Of Outdoor & Optics

So perhaps nearing 70 years on, a new A-K prism x32 model wouldn't be impossible?


John

 

[Maljunulo]

And in terms of size, see the 1950’s A-K prism Hensoldt Dialyt 8x32 vs the current state-of-the-art S-P prism Zeiss SF and the Swarovski NL 8x32’s.
It’s from Gijs most recent test of 100 years of 8x30/ 8x32’s at: Verrekijker testen | House Of Outdoor & Optics

So perhaps nearing 70 years on, a new A-K prism x32 model wouldn't be impossible?


John

What is the financial incentive for any manufacturer to develop such a model, and how would it be priced?

 

[Swissboy]

Hi Swissboy,

As far as I know, the most recent example from a quality manufacturer is from well over 50 years ago! . . .

The pre-WWII Hensoldt Dialyt line included both 6x30 and 8x30 versions, and these were also offered when production recommenced in 1948.
See a page from a 1953 pamphlet at: http://home.europa.com/~telscope/temp/Hensoldt.1953.2.jpg

By 1956 the Dialyt line had been upgraded and there was instead an 8x32 which continued until production ceased in 1964. See both:
• a page from a 1960 pamphlet (a 1956 pamphlet in German has the same details); and
• a specification page from a 1963 US price list.
Both are from a selection of Hensoldt material at that great resource Miniature Binoculars: https://www.miniaturebinoculars.com/part4/Page1604.htm

And also see a cross-section of the 8x32 from a Japanese site at: 『HENSOLDT WETZLAR 6×42 Jagd Dialyt ～ アッベ・ケーニッヒ』


. . . though others such as Frank may be aware of later offerings (?).


John

Hi John,

Thank you so much for the detailed documentation. I always find it hard to see how those slim tubes (barrels) could accomodate prisms. The documents don't specifically mention the prism type, all I find (unless I overlooked something) is "Dachkant-Prismen", which, I believe is any roof type. So I particularly love the illustration of the cross section 8x32 with the clear AKs.

And that comparative picture (#9) with the Hensoldt and the newest generation Zeiss/Swaro is a special treat!

 

[elkcub]

To complement John's material on post #2, this pre-WWII info was copied from Swift & Anderson's 1030-31 Catalog. S&A was the predecessor to Swift Instruments, and a major importer of Hensoldt products. The Dialyt series included a range of configurations with the 8x26 "Travel" binocular at the small end, and the 8x50 "Astro" at the large end. In today's money they would cost $1,214 USD and $2,462 USD, respectively.

Ed

 

[Patudo]

I have several Zeiss FL models, but despite being excellent, the "non-Abbe" x32 strikes me as so much less exciting than the x42 models with Abbe-Koenig prisms.

May I ask what makes the x32s "so much less exciting"?

I'm frankly not sure if I could tell the difference between a modern binocular with Abbe-Koening and one with other prisms in a true blind test, were such a thing possible. How many of the experts here would back themselves to be able to do so, I wonder...?

 

[elkcub]

Aren't you simply asking what Swissboy suggested in post #1?
A blind comparison can't be made without first having products to compare.

But it is clear that simply the size of the objective isn't a limiting factor.

 

[dries1]

Blind test Zeiss FL and SLC in 8X42 for instance, it would be a difficult test.

 

[John A Roberts]

Various advantages of the Dialyts are described on page #3 of the 1930-1931 S&A catalogue provided by Ed in post #7.
Included is that they are: 'The only Prism Binoculars in which the prism system may be removed intact, cleaned and replaced in case of emergency.'

And more remarkably, in a folder from 1907 removal for cleaning is described as easy (and so presumedly routine) and an illustration is included!
See panels 2 and 4. The folder is from: Dated 1907 Cover SAN Fran CA a Lietz CO Mining Engineer & Nautical Instruments | United States, Stamp
It’s also the earliest advertising information that I’ve found for the Dialyts.

So something else that's not offered in current binoculars


John

 

[elkcub]

Blind test Zeiss FL and SLC in 8X42 for instance, it would be a difficult test.

Absolutely!

 

[tenex]

The pre-WWII Hensoldt Dialyt line included both 6x30 and 8x30 versions, and these were also offered when production recommenced in 1948...

Interesting that the 6-8x30s were described as "pocket" models though they look as large as SFs. At least they were light, 350-380g.

An interesting thing happened between 1953 and 1963: all the fields of view improved substantially.

 

[Maljunulo]

An interesting thing happened between 1953 and 1963: all the fields of view improved substantially.

Computer-aided optical designing?

 

[dries1]

An 8X32 is still an 8X32, so to me the AK prisms would not make a difference in performance. The coatings on the SP prisms today surely have evolved since 1953. Having a nice 1963 sample in ones collection would be nice - since the ones I have seen are quite worn out.

 

[Swissboy]

May I ask what makes the x32s "so much less exciting"?

I'm frankly not sure if I could tell the difference between a modern binocular with Abbe-Koening and one with other prisms in a true blind test, were such a thing possible.

That is actually my question. Is the felt difference simply due to the objective size, or is there more to it, i.e. an influence of the prism types as well? It may well be that the modern binoculars can compensate earlier shortcomings of the SP types. Nevertheless, the Abbe-Koenig prisms have been used in those x40 plus models, and most likely not for nostalgic reasons.

 

[elkcub]

--PS: That's a Sooty Falcon on the avatar, photo taken near Sharm el Sheik, Egypt. My highest priority raptor at the time.
What's your species on the avatar? I often have no clue!

Robert,

The species on my avatar is a Bald Eagle, which has been the national emblem of the USA since 1782. The picture is from a Navajo beadwork belt buckle, where the head was apparently copied from the shoulder patch of the US Army's 101st Airborne Division — known as the "Screaming Eagles."

 

[dries1]

As of late they are sort of stuck in their nest.