Bullfinch in Sichuan, China, July (1 Viewer)

[beijingbabbler]

Hi, I saw this bullfinch at around 2500m elevation in central Sichuan. I'm not sure if it's gray headed or brown bullfinch, and it seems like it's a juvenile, with a yellow bill - I haven't found any photos of juveniles with yellow bills for either species, although the lack of black mask makes it seems like brown bullfinch. Thanks in advance for the help!

 

[redpandacat]

I lean towards Grey-headed but I cannot find a good description of the juvenile Brown Bullfinch so hard to say anything definitive. The wing bar width is fairly constant (not narrow to wide); there's no white patch of fluffy feathers where the upper wing meets the chest; there's paler colouring both below and probably above the eye. Of course, for the juvenile these might not be relevant. MacKinnon says juvenile Grey-headed is like female but head brown and minimal mask - I think in photo it could be described as a weak mask... not sure whether minimal! I hope someone can say something with more certainty.

 

[andyb39]

I'm more inclined towards Brown, although from from certain. I see what you mean about the shape of the wingbar, but there doesn't seem to be a bib and there's no black "bridge" at the base of the bill. I think even a juvenile Grey-headed would look greyer on the head and warmer underneath. I've only found one image of a juvenile Brown on Macaulay, but it's from Taiwan: ML58121121 - Brown Bullfinch - Macaulay Library.

 

[beijingbabbler]

I'm more inclined towards Brown, although from from certain. I see what you mean about the shape of the wingbar, but there doesn't seem to be a bib and there's no black "bridge" at the base of the bill. I think even a juvenile Grey-headed would look greyer on the head and warmer underneath. I've only found one image of a juvenile Brown on Macaulay, but it's from Taiwan: ML58121121 - Brown Bullfinch - Macaulay Library.

Thanks for the information! I wish I had photos at other angles, but this is the only one I have (other one being the head turned left and not visible, which is even less helpful). The lack of white puffy feathers at the upper wing mentioned by redpandacat is a detail I didn't realize, not sure if it's a diagnostic difference between the two species, especially for juveniles. I wonder if there are any structural/shape differences that may help, although it might be hard to judge without more angles.

 

[AStevenson1]

With the caveat that I've never seen either, from looking at various fieldguides they suggest that brown has only a narrow white band on the lower rump but grey-headed has a much larger white rump. From what can be seen between the wings it looks much more like the latter so juv/f grey-headed? unless the books are wrong.