Caspian Gull question. (1 Viewer)

[jmorlan]

This image was originally identified as Caspian/Steppe Gull. It is the lead photo in the Caspian Gull Opus Article. Now that Steppe Gull has been classified as a race of Lesser Black-backed Gull, we would like to know if it is possible to tell which species it is. We also wonder about the two images in the Caspian Gull Opus article from Romania. As far as I can tell, Caspian Gull as currently defined does not normally occur in Romania. Could those birds be Yellow-legged Gulls? Or something else? Thanks in advance.

 

[Sangahyando]

I assume that with "Steppe Gull", you mean ssp. barabensis? Anyway, Romania should be part of the core range of Caspian Gull sensu stricto. IMHO, the pictures in the article show fairly typical Caspian Gulls. The pictures I found of barabensis on the BF gallery show a slightly darker mantle.

 

[jmorlan]

Thanks. Yes, barabensis is now a race of Lesser Black-backed Gull. Clements gives its range as "Steppes of central Asia; winters mainly in sw Asia east to India." The lead photo in the Caspian Gull account seems to have a slightly darker mantle than the Caspian Gull adult in Romania. The latest Clements restricts Caspian Gull range as "Black Sea to Kazakhstan; winters to s Asia and ne Africa." However other sources indicate a breeding range expansion to Poland, and East Germany with dispersal into Western Europe. I think the Clements range may be too restrictive. Thanks again for the information. Will fix the Opus range description.

 

[Nutcracker]

I've got a pic of a definite Caspian (c-r ringed PKCS, from a verified colony in southern Poland) that I can put on as the lead pic if you like.

 

[lou salomon]

the adult gull in the opus article is a steppe gull (larus fuscus barabensis). romania is well within the core breeding range of larus cachinnans. and if anyone wants, i have ten thousends of pics with caspian gulls

 

[Sangahyando]

Thanks. Yes, barabensis is now a race of Lesser Black-backed Gull. Clements gives its range as "Steppes of central Asia; winters mainly in sw Asia east to India." The lead photo in the Caspian Gull account seems to have a slightly darker mantle than the Caspian Gull adult in Romania. The latest Clements restricts Caspian Gull range as "Black Sea to Kazakhstan; winters to s Asia and ne Africa." However other sources indicate a breeding range expansion to Poland, and East Germany with dispersal into Western Europe. I think the Clements range may be too restrictive. Thanks again for the information. Will fix the Opus range description.

I stand corrected regarding the first photo.
Regarding the range, the IOC list is a bit vague as well. By contrast, the Collins Guide (2nd edition, 2011) shows several colonies in Poland, a regular presence along most of the Danube (intersecting with YLG), and a status as regular migrant and wintering bird in Germany for Caspian Gull. Haven't checked the German atlas of breeding birds recently, but it wouldn't surprise me if they'd established a permanent foothold in the meantime.

 

[lou salomon]

Large colonies in Saxony. ...and first breeding in the Netherlands. ..

 

[JANJ]

That is some time ago (https://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=54524) and as then - the suggested cachinnans/barabensis could nowadays well be a problematic choice. However, I'm inclined to identify it as a most probably barabensis. What can be seen in the folded primaries from below is that here seems not to be a visible pale tounge, as can just be seen here:http://gull-research.org/cachinnans/4cy/pnde.html.

JanJ

 

[jmorlan]

Okay. I moved the lead Caspian Gull photo to the Lesser Black-backed Gull article. Replaced it with a nice flight shot from Romania. Updated Caspian Gull distribution. Searching for additional Caspian Gull photos in our gallery, I wondered about this one. Is it Caspian or Steppe? And this one. Why does it have pink legs? This has all been extremely helpful. Thank you all.

Edit: One more thing. This photo: https://www.birdforum.net/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=384842 is labeled Yellow-legged Gull. Is it correct? Not sure of the status of Yellow-legged in Romania but I've learned that there are plenty of Caspian Gulls there. . When I do a gallery search for Caspian Gull, a bunch of Yellow-legged Gulls show up, perhaps left over from when they were lumped and shared the same scientific name.

 

[lou salomon]

you can trust all the pics, cristian mihai has loaded up in the gallery, joe, all checked and all correctly labelled. both caspian and yellow-legged gulls breed in romania in large numbers. http://www.lou.bertalan.de/gulls/m_newest.php

 

[JANJ]

Apart from Lou's site I suppose you have checked this Joseph:http://www.gull-research.org/ an also here are some nice examples:http://www.talk.gull-research.org/index.php

JanJ