Common or Lesser Kestrel in Fez Morocco May 17 2022 (4 Viewers)

[AFM]

Hello everyone, I spotted this Kestrel in Fez, Morocco on May 17, 2022. I am struggling to determine whether it is a Common/Eurasian or Lesser Kestrel (though I know it was female). I've heard that size is supposed to be the best indicator, but it was too far/high up for me to judge that accurately. I have also heard that the dark edges of the remiges is supposed to be wider on the Lesser Kestrel, which suggests to me that this COULD be a Lesser Kestrel? But I'm really not sure, any thoughts? Thanks in advance!

 

[lou salomon]

tricky with females but long p10 (outermost primary) is long which suggests Lesser.

 

[AFM]

tricky with females but long p10 (outermost primary) is long which suggests Lesser.

Oh yes, I see what you mean! That makes perfect sense to me I did just add some photos with the tail open, though the quality is terrible, I'm not sure if that helps at all? But thanks for your expertise!

 

[01101001]

Is the grey on the head in the first and last picture an artifact (maybe overexposure)?

(here's an additional article I found about the seperation of the two, which appears to mention the P10 length difference: Lesser Kestrel v Common Kestrel - Andalucia Bird Society)

 

[njlarsen]

This is from our own Opus page

Identifying perched female Lesser Kestrels can be difficult as they're very like female Common Kestrel, but they tend to have a 'cleaner' paler cheek which gives a more gentle look, the two central tail feathers often (but not always) project a little & the wings are longer too (reaching closer to the tail tip). In flight they're more slender and usually have a less densely marked underwing. Also look at the wing tip: if outermost primary (p10) and the one three in (p7) are equal length, then you are looking at Common Kestrel, if p7 is shorter, then it is Lesser Kestrel. However it's generally easiest to wait a few moments for the more distinctive male to turn up!

Lesser Kestrel - BirdForum Opus

www.birdforum.net

Niels

 

[Butty]

I've heard that size is supposed to be the best indicator

Not so. Certainly not something I've ever used, nor would use, in the field: there's a big overlap between the species, and even on extreme individuals it would be impossible to judge. One of these cases where the common name is misleading for ID purposes.

Is the grey on the head in the first and last picture an artifact?

I don't think it's any more grey in reality than (say) the ground-colour of much of the underwing is grey in reality.

 

[AFM]

Is the grey on the head in the first and last picture an artifact (maybe overexposure)?

(here's an additional article I found about the seperation of the two, which appears to mention the P10 length difference: Lesser Kestrel v Common Kestrel - Andalucia Bird Society)

The head got a bit washed out on those photos, but there was definitely a gray-blue cheek. It's hard to tell from underneath, but it might have even been a gray-blue hood (not just cheek). Considering that, and now that I'm looking at the open tail feathers, I see that the tailband is much more prominent than any of the spots on it - could this even be a male Common Kestrel? But again, P10 are definitely long, which suggests Lesser Kestrel... And the female Lesser Kestrel can still have this distinctive of a cheek, right?

 

[ApusApus]

Wing formula makes this a Lesser Kestrel surely!


Shane

 

[lou salomon]

Wing formula makes this a Lesser Kestrel surely!


Shane

while still I think it is a Lesser Kestrel, I wouldn't rely on this single feature, even though it is a structural one. Andrea Corso
warns to use it on females as a single determining feature.

 

[tconzemi]

while still I think it is a Lesser Kestrel, I wouldn't rely on this single feature, even though it is a structural one. Andrea Corso
warns to use it on females as a single determining feature.

It is a very useful feature but obviously useless

• in moulting birds
• When feather damaged
• And depending on angle of view, e.g. you need overhead views and both wings showing same formula

That I think it is useful here and agree with lou: Lesser