Cross between a Siskin & a Greenfinch? (1 Viewer)

[palval147]

In our garden a few minutes ago we saw what looked like crosses between a Siskin & a Greenfinch There were three feeding on the niger. They had black heads extending slightly under their chins & a yellowish eye stripe. Backs & wings marked like a Greenfinch & greeny/yellow chests. Bigger than a Siskin, more Greenfinch size. They didn't stay long so no photo.
It isn't often I am stumped when identifying garden birds, but these three have me stumped??? Does anyone know what they could be?

 

[yorkshire83]

how sure are you they weren't siskin? do you get siskin on your feeders regularly?

 

[palval147]

Yes we do & they were definitely not Siskins, too big & their bills were too thick.

 

[palval147]

I have solved my puzzle myself. The birds I am 99.9% sure were Cirl Buntings.

http://www.surfbirds.com/gallery/search2.cgi?species=Cirl+Bunting

 

[birdermoose]

I have solved my puzzle myself. The birds I am 99.9% sure were Cirl Buntings.

http://www.surfbirds.com/gallery/search2.cgi?species=Cirl+Bunting

That's a very good bird to have feeding in your garden! The RSPB estimates that there are only 862 pairs left in Britain. The majority confined to Devon.

 

[Jacana]

I don't know what part of Devon you're in, but if it is away from the south coast then I would recommend looking again.

 

[Boy Wonder]

A long shot but have a google for Green Singing Finch.

 

[baphomet]

If you think Cirl Bunting what about Yellowhammer?

 

[palval147]

We live aproximately 6 miles from where Cirl Buntings usually live here, on the coast at Wembury. I have seen them there.

If they were Green Singing finches, they would have been captive bred escapees & three together seems unlikely.


Not Yellowhammer, I ruled that out when I first sighted the birds.

 

[Dave Appleton]

Backs & wings marked like a Greenfinch

They weren't Cirl Buntings then.

Yes we do & they were definitely not Siskins, too big & their bills were too thick.

Ignore size assessments as the brain plays all sorts of tricks with size. If they looked like Siskins but were the wrong size, they were Siskins. It's also easy to misjudge bill size.

 

[palval147]

They weren't Cirl Buntings then.

.

Ignore size assessments as the brain plays all sorts of tricks with size. If they looked like Siskins but were the wrong size, they were Siskins. It's also easy to misjudge bill size.

I did see light colour in the wings, it was such a quick sighting of them before they flew. They weren't Greenfinches either with that black head, striped in yellow

No, I was not wrong about them being bigger than a Siskin nor wrong about the thick stubbiness of their bills, these birds were much heavier set than Siskins & didn't act like them either.


OK so if you think not Cirl Buntings then what do you think I saw????

 

[McMadd]

OK so if you think not Cirl Buntings then what do you think I saw????

They think you saw Siskins...

I'd be interested in anyone's knowledge of Cirls coming to feeders too...not saying they don't but I'm not aware that they are recorded as doing so...your local birders can better answer that than me given Devon is a stronghold...

McM

 

[Jacana]

To be fair, I've seen Cirls on bird tables/feeders in Devon.

 

[Kingfisher21]

So...I can't see why they shouldn't have been cirl buntings? Black heads with yellow stripes, 6 miles from where they are usually seen and they do come to feeders. So why not? Lucky you!

 

[BillN]

there are a few images on the forum of Cirl Buntings if this helps - the reason I point this out is that I saw a Cirl Bunting in SW France, (they are quite common in France - but a first time for me), yesterday in my back "garden" near our house - it could come or have come on our "bird table" - it was quite near

- so I looked thru the forum to find an image

I thought that it was a Green Finch at first until I got my bins out - I then took an image and asked a friend, who ID it for me

mine are not great images, but if they help here they are below

(that's the power wire to our house - we are in rural SW France)

 

[palval147]

there are a few images on the forum of Cirl Buntings if this helps - the reason I point this out is that I saw a Cirl Bunting in SW France, (they are quite common in France - but a first time for me), yesterday in my back "garden" near our house - it could come or have come on our "bird table" - it was quite near

- so I looked thru the forum to find an image

I thought that it was a Green Finch at first until I got my bins out - I then took an image and asked a friend, who ID it for me

mine are not great images, but if they help here they are below

(that's the power wire to our house - we are in rural SW France)

Thanks for the pics BillN, That is certainly similar to what I saw, though I didn't notice any reddish colour on their breasts. (There were three birds BTW.)

I wonder if the lack of the reddish colouring was because they were in eclipse plumage & not full breeding plumage????

 

[palval147]

So...I can't see why they shouldn't have been cirl buntings? Black heads with yellow stripes, 6 miles from where they are usually seen and they do come to feeders. So why not? Lucky you!

Thanks, Kingfisher21, but I am still not 100% certain. I wish they had come back!

 

[Kingfisher21]

Most males should be in full breeding plumage by now (ducks go into 'eclipse' plumage in late summer, e.g. mallard).

 

[Dave Appleton]

OK so if you think not Cirl Buntings then what do you think I saw????

The reality of this is of course that they should go down as unidentified. It isn't always possible to put a name to everything we see. From your original description they sound most like Siskins and quite unlike Cirl Buntings, but I do not claim to know what they were. Cirl Buntings do not look like a cross between a Siskin and a Greenfinch in any way, and they behave quite differently. I believe that had they been Cirl Buntings you would not have described them in this way. However I do note that the main reason you don't think they are Siskins is your perception of size. Having seen countless instances of people requesting IDs of birds with photos which are clearly and unambiguously identifiable as one species and had them swear blind that they couldn't have been whatever they clearly were because they were far too big, and having been fooled by size myself on numerous occasions, I know not to take a blind bit of notice of descriptions of size - that's not to be dismissive, it's just that most people - even experienced birders often - do not realise to what extent our perception of size can be flawed.

 

[palval147]

The reality of this is of course that they should go down as unidentified. It isn't always possible to put a name to everything we see. From your original description they sound most like Siskins and quite unlike Cirl Buntings, but I do not claim to know what they were. Cirl Buntings do not look like a cross between a Siskin and a Greenfinch in any way, and they behave quite differently. I believe that had they been Cirl Buntings you would not have described them in this way. However I do note that the main reason you don't think they are Siskins is your perception of size. Having seen countless instances of people requesting IDs of birds with photos which are clearly and unambiguously identifiable as one species and had them swear blind that they couldn't have been whatever they clearly were because they were far too big, and having been fooled by size myself on numerous occasions, I know not to take a blind bit of notice of descriptions of size - that's not to be dismissive, it's just that most people - even experienced birders often - do not realise to what extent our perception of size can be flawed.

Dave, I know for sure they definitely were not Siskins, we get those here regularly in the Winter months. As I said before, much thicker bills & far more black & yellow on their heads than Siskins have, irrespective of the size & they did not act like Siskins either.
It seems they will remain a mystery as they never came back.