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Eastern jackdaw in Stockholm? (1 Viewer)

yapaco

Member
I photographed this jackdaw in central Stockholm yesterday. I am aware of the subspecies of jackdaws and also of the difficulty of identifying them in the field. However I thought this individual was quite conspicuous and I am thinking it could be a russian (soemmerringii) or more probably a "polish integrade". I don't think the contrast between a black throat and greyer breast and belly is as marked as it should be for a soemmerringii.

I would be glad for any comments!

Reference: Eastern Jackdaws
 

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This head/neck/chest plumage is said by Svensson edn 3 to be 'shown by some birds in Scandinavia', ie outside the range of soemmerringii, ie it's a pretty normal part of variation in spermologus.
Ed. - For 'spermologus' read 'the nominate race' - my error.
 
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This head/neck/chest plumage is said by Svensson edn 3 to be 'shown by some birds in Scandinavia', ie outside the range of soemmerringii, ie it's a pretty normal part of variation in spermologus.
With a virtual complete neck-ring as shown in image 3, looking identical to soemmerringii?
 
This head/neck/chest plumage is said by Svensson edn 3 to be 'shown by some birds in Scandinavia', ie outside the range of soemmerringii, ie it's a pretty normal part of variation in spermologus.
(you meant monedula, I think: the one that breeds in Scandinavia, going by the link above)

(photos 1 and 2 look a bit like different individuals, but that could maybe be put to the lay of the feathers making up the white collar)

I didn't know about turrium and Polish intergrade, having assumed that the birds here are monedula, so I don't have much to say except that Jackdaws in Poland are indeed quite variable.

I rarely manage to outsmart an interesting Jackdaw before it becomes suspicious and flies away, but here's my best candidate for soemmerringii that I was able to photograph (can't guarantee this is it).

The other photo shows what some breeding birds look like here. The contrasting upper throat makes me think this one is not soemmerringii (for what it's worth).
 

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spermologus is absent from Scandinavia except as a vagrant, so it's an oversight on the book's part; nominate monedula breeds there
 
The colors of these parties are more or less intermediate between those of Scandinavian and eastern birds, however, generally it lacks the nuance that gives a pale purple lavender at the nape of soemmerringii.
(from Eastern Jackdaws)

I find it hard to imagine; does anyone have any examples?

EDIT: As I see, I'm not qualified to judge, but I wouldn't exclude the possibility of the OP's bird being soemmerringii just yet.

I wonder what subspecies do some birds wintering in Kiev represent (monedula, soemmerringii or something in between?):
Or, maybe this is the Polish intergrade? Not the kind of bird you often see in central Poland, at least.

EDIT 2: To those who live in Scandinavia: do your breeding Jackdaws typically have a ridiculously large black throat as below?
 
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It is the same individual in my photos. The common ssp in Sweden is monedula. And monedula can have a whitish collar.

I just thought the collar on this individual was exceptionally pronounced. To me the obvious alternative was soemmeringi, but having read the article above today, about "polish integrades", I'm thinking it is maybe more probable that my individual is such a "polish intergrade".

Having said that, I know that the variation in appearance between these ssp is on a cline, and I assume interbreeding is fairly common too. A very experienced birder I know is sceptical to differentiating monedula and soemmeringi in the field.

The photos above on jackdaws in Kiev are much more "clean" soemmeringi in my opinion. Also those norwegian jackdaws look very light grey! Our common jackdaws in Stockholm do not look like that.
 
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Interesting. I don't think most Jackdaws in Warsaw have so much light grey either, although some do. (In fact, I'm not sure about the proportions.) A combination of a grey (not contrasting black) throat and a pronounced collar--as in your picture--is rather rare here, so I wouldn't necessarily own up to this individual, which is not to say it definitely couldn't originate from here.

Nowhere near as bright as the ones I used to see when I lived in Russia, example attached.
Meanwhile, the picture does indeed look quite similar to other Eastern Jackdaws found online (a bit uncertain about the throat and whether it's contrasting due to its colour or shadow), but is St. Petersburg far enough from the range of pure monedula/monedula intergrades to have pure soemmerringii Jackdaws?

As an aside, one look at Jackdaws in India (supposedly soemmerringii as well), and they are nothing like the soemmerringii from Eastern Europe that we normally think of:
 
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Interesting. I don't think most Jackdaws in Warsaw have so much light grey either, although some do. A combination of a grey (not contrasting black) throat and a pronounced collar--as in your picture--is rather rare here, so I wouldn't necessarily own up to this individual, which is not to say it definitely couldn't originate from here.


Meanwhile, the picture does indeed look quite similar to other Eastern Jackdaws found online (a bit uncertain about the throat and whether it's contrasting due to its colour or shadow), but is St. Petersburg far enough from the range of pure monedula/monedula intergrades to have pure soemmerringii Jackdaws?

As an aside, one look at Jackdaws in India (supposedly soemmerringii as well), and they are nothing like the soemmerringii from Eastern Europe that we normally think of:
It may not be far enough East in fact (?) but the local birds were quite striking as you can see, much brighter than the OP.
 
Additonal to the above, my shot was taken in June so Eastern race birds should not be present?

Regarding a collared appearance, our birds in Cyprus show this feature too, I'll try and dig one out but having trouble finding it though I have posted it on BF before if anyone is better than me at finding it?
 
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I tried to reframe the question from: 'what Jackdaws in XYZ look like', which is--apparently--very difficult to answer for now, to: 'what do people in XYZ think their Jackdaws look like'. Results below. No pretense to objectivity since the pictures below are curated to suit my existing preconceptions (I decided myself which are reliable and which aren't), so that any sensible conclusions could be drawn from them.

Spain 🇪🇸:
Britain 🇬🇧:

Sweden 🇸🇪:
Poland 🇵🇱:

Russia:
Ukraine 🇺🇦:
Armenia 🇦🇲:

Pale collar in soemmerringii overrated as a feature (at the expense of pale neck sides and nape + non-contrasting throat)?? Shown very prominently in Collins 3rd edition, not so much here?
 
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I tried to reframe the question from: 'what Jackdaws in XYZ look like', which is--apparently--very difficult to answer for now, to: 'what do people in XYZ think their Jackdaws look like'. Results below. No pretense to objectivity since the pictures below are curated to suit my existing preconceptions (I decided myself which are reliable and which aren't), so that any sensible conclusions could be drawn from them.

Interesting analysis! :) However, there are a lot of methodological problems with that approach! Without knowing more about how the illustrations were made, there is the obvious risk that the artists have a) not relied enough on their own field observations or actual field data from others, b) not taken into account the variability of individuals they've observed in the field c) based the illustration on photos of jackdaws from other areas than their own country, d) based the illustration on illustrations from other countries, e) taken artistic freedom.

Pale collar in soemmerringii overrated as a feature?? Shown very prominently in Collins, not so much here?

This web page monedula2003 was published as an article in Dutch Birding volume 25 (2003) no. 4 and it has detailed descriptions of jackdaw ssp plumages. There they say "is always clearly white and sharply defined over its full length, forming a whole with the neck-patch". I've also consulted Handbook of Western Palearctic Birds (Shirihai & Svensson) and they say a "majority have grey-white mark or half-collar, but a prominent and long whitish mark only occurs in c. 50%" and "birds without grey-white collar patch can be inseparable from monedula".

So I think there is no doubt about that a grey-white collar is one important character of soemmerringi. But there is also individual variation and a cline over the area where these ssp live, so it's not a definining differential character. Another important character of seommerringi that both sources above mention, is a lighter, more contrasting nape and ear-converts which stand out against a black crown and throat.

I think these photos of jackdaws in Russia: Eurasian Jackdaw - Corvus monedula - Media Search - Macaulay Library and eBird confirm the above features, assuming that the majority of photos in russia are of soemmeringi.

These photos of jackdaws in Finland: Eurasian Jackdaw - Corvus monedula - Media Search - Macaulay Library and eBird look more like the monedula jackdaws we have in the Stockholm area.

And these photos of jackdaws in Poland: Eurasian Jackdaw - Corvus monedula - Media Search - Macaulay Library and eBird have some showing a paler grey-whitish collar which may be indicative of the "polish intergrades".

Taking all the above into consideration and looking again at my photos, I would consider my individual to at least be a good candidate for a soemmeringi or at least a "polish intergrade". But of course, I will not bet my binoculars on it! :)
 
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I wonder what subspecies do some birds wintering in Kiev represent (monedula, soemmerringii or something in between?):
Or, maybe this is the Polish intergrade? Not the kind of bird you often see in central Poland, at least.
I used to think such birds are soemmerringii, e.g. here: Macaulay Library: interesting jackdaw from India
Below a photo from eastern Poland, and it stands out among the local Jackdaws there:

Looks like they're more probably those Polish intergrades in the end. But where from--not from Poland, it seems?



Now re your post:

1) On a quick look, the vagrant soemmerringii in monedula2003 has very pale neck sides and a drab throat apart from the white collar, so everything should be fine with the criteria.

2)
I've also consulted Handbook of Western Palearctic Birds (Shirihai & Svensson) and they say a "majority have grey-white mark or half-collar, but a prominent and long whitish mark only occurs in c. 50%" and "birds without grey-white collar patch can be inseparable from monedula".

So I think there is no doubt about that a grey-white collar is one important character of soemmerringi. But there is also individual variation and a cline over the area where these ssp live, so it's not a definining differential character. Another important character of seommerringi that both sources above mention, is a lighter, more contrasting nape and ear-converts which stand out against a black crown and throat.
It seems to agree with my current idea of what it looks like (together with the part slightly downplaying the significance of the collar). The fact that a dark throat is mentioned under Nordic Jackdaw but not Eastern Jackdaw makes me assume the latter has it drabber (taken from Western jackdaw - Wikipedia), or at least not contrasting with the rest of the underparts, be it black or dark grey, i.e. yes to neck sides vs throat contrast, but no to throat vs underparts contrast. I might be getting it wrong.

3) At least some birds in North-Western Russia could well be intergrades. Birds east of the Ural are hard to square with whichever definition of seommerringii was proposed here (I tried to dig deeper in another thread of mine: Macaulay Library: interesting Jackdaw from India--link above in this post). So, I'd be cautious about saying that all Jackdaws in Russia conform to the definition of soemmerringii.

4) Finland has intergrades, at least partly, according to the map from your first post. Maybe your local Jackdaws are intergrades of some sort as well? The breeding birds in Norway and the one in the Swedish plate have much more light grey than yours: is it possible that the ones you have now are overwinterers from some subspecies overlap zone farther east, while your actual breeding population has gone south?

5) The three birds at the top were photographed in winter. I'm not convinced such birds breed here, but maybe (I'd be inclined to believe such birds might breed a bit further north)?
Classing them as intergrades would also be consistent with what I was intending to post before I read your message (the part before the three enters).

Thank you for so many useful links! A lot to catch up with for me.
 
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I tried to reframe the question from: 'what Jackdaws in XYZ look like', which is--apparently--very difficult to answer for now, to: 'what do people in XYZ think their Jackdaws look like'. Results below. No pretense to objectivity since the pictures below are curated to suit my existing preconceptions (I decided myself which are reliable and which aren't), so that any sensible conclusions could be drawn from them.

Spain 🇪🇸:
Britain 🇬🇧:

Sweden 🇸🇪:
Poland 🇵🇱:

Russia:
Ukraine 🇺🇦:
Armenia 🇦🇲:

Pale collar in soemmerringii overrated as a feature (at the expense of pale neck sides and nape + non-contrasting throat)?? Shown very prominently in Collins 3rd edition, not so much here?

In relation to the image under Ukraine, seems to be the same as birds much further North in St Petersburg?

In relation to images ending 3771, 5181 and 0441 in post #10, these are not unlike the birds in Cyprus and I've always perceived the feature to be a shoulder bar rather than a collar?
 
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Do you have any photos of Cyprus Jackdaws?

EDIT: I vaguely remember someone argued for the recognition of another, 5th, subspecies of Jackdaw in Southeast Europe?

EDIT 2:
The actual range of soemmerringii is huge and covers the former Soviet Union east to Lake Baikal, Siberia, and north-western Mongolia, south to Turkey, and Israel and the Himalayas (Voous 1960, Cramp & Perrins 1994, Madge & Burn 1994). Included in soemmerringii are birds from the Balkans and Greece (sometimes recognised as a separate subspecies, 'collaris'), from, birds Cyprus, Turkey, Levant, northern Iraq and Iran and Turkmeniya (sometimes recognised as 'pontocaspicus') and from central Siberia and Mongolia (sometimes recognized as 'ultracollaris') (cf Cramp & Perrins 1994).
(from monedula2003 mentioned above)

What if the birds with a substantial collar/shoulder bar from Southern Poland, Eastern (actually Southeastern) Poland, and North Central Ukraine are vagrants from collaris type of soemmerringii that got sucked up into flocks of local birds travelling from down South (the Balkans and Greece) instead of being overwintering birds from up North belonging to an unspecified population of soemmerringii proper? But why were they recorded in winter--maybe because Jackdaws are much more numerous and prominent in winter, and people have much more interesting photography subjects in summer?

EDIT 3: I should probably cut the speculation here pending further info/evidence. I'd better stick to Northern Europe for now and read up the references.
 
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Do you have any photos of Cyprus Jackdaws?

EDIT: I vaguely remember someone argued for the recognition of another, 5th, subspecies of Jackdaw in Southeast Europe?
I'm having trouble finding the shot I posted here last year.

In relation to sub-species, I found this but have no idea who the guy is?

 
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