Flycatcher identifcation Khao Sok Thailand (1 Viewer)

[AARDY]

Please can anybody confirm the identification of these flycatchers from a couple of weeks ago. Guides at the site were unable to identify the adult bird and were touting the immature bird as a Siberian Blue Robin.

The nearest I can find is Zappey's flycatcher,and I suspect the immature is probably the same species?

Thank you.

 

[Grahame Walbridge]

Both are undoubted Cyanoptila, adult and 1st-w male. The adult does look good for Zappey's, in the 2nd image in particular, the throat and breast look pretty uniform in colouration, the only black confined to the lower border. A word of caution though, lighting is a key factor when assessing precise colour tones and care must be taken to eliminate the superficially similar B&W ssp. intermedia-see https://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=368301 With regards the 1st-w I wouldn't necessarily assume it's the same species, but the newly moulted feathers on the lower throat, in particular, would indicate I assume (?) Zappey's the more likely option-scroll down for a similar bird here https://singaporebirdgroup.wordpress.com/tag/zappeys-flycatcher/

Grahame

 

[Brian J Small]

For further reading and how to separate Zappey's - https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/6a00/163193c8a7064d887034366cd1bf977c4549.pdf

Note the very distinct blue-green colour of Zappey's and the streaked back...

Brian

 

[AARDY]

Thanks for your replies. The identification article suggests that intermedia should always have a black/contrasting breast ,but the ebird photos clearly show a bird with uniform colouration and a blue breast.
If such birds exist maybe my bird(s) is a Blue and White flycatcher as although the bird was uniform blue there is no obvious mantle streaking in any of my photos. Or is it possible that the ebird bird is actually Zappeys?
Confused !!

It would have been nice to name it as either is a good bird for the area but I guess it will have to go down as Blue and White/Zappeys.

Thanks again

 

[andyb39]

I found the article very interesting. That blue-green, rather Verditer-like coloration and the streaky upperparts of the Zappey's skins are not apparent in any online images I can find.

With intermedia, as far as I can see, there should be some contrasting blackish tones on the throat, not just in the area of the border. I'm pretty sure your adult male is Zappey's, as the throat is uniformly blue, and the 1st-winter bird should be too, with that blue feathering coming through on the throat. Here's another example of a 1st-winter identified in the same way: http://orientalbirdimages.org/search.php?Bird_ID=2945&Bird_Image_ID=84346.

 

[Brian J Small]

I found the article very interesting. That blue-green, rather Verditer-like coloration and the streaky upperparts of the Zappey's skins are not apparent in any online images I can find.

I think that, as Grahame noted, colour balance (either through light, sensor or manipulation) plays a part in how many images of Zappey's appears in online images. Many look purer ultramarine-blue than in the Leader & Carey article, but there are some that look greener and have at least a hint of streaking:-

https://media.istockphoto.com/photo...-bright-velvet-blue-bird-picture-id1151412704 - here you can see the greener hues of the back contrasting with the blue lesser coverts and some fine streaking on the back

https://image.shutterstock.com/z/st...d-with-white-belly-perching-on-1347184889.jpg - and again a hint of greener hues on the breast and streaking on back

Some nice images here - https://singaporebirds.com/species/zappeys-flycatcher/ - though at least one has a darker chest than you might expect for Zappey's...

Brian

 

[AARDY]

One final photo showing the apparent lack of upperpart streaking. It appears this may be the normal appearance of Zappey's in the field? Or maybe we still
have more to learn about this species pair?

Thanks again for the replies.

 

[Grahame Walbridge]

Regarding upperparts streaking in cumatilis I would add that according to Phil Round the 4 spring males he has handled on Man Nai (Rayong) in the Gulf all lacked this feature. I also took the liberty of sending him your images for comment and he said the adult looked closest to intermedia B&W. He did not pass comment on the 1st-w saying that currently he only identifies adult males to taxon.

Grahame

 

[AARDY]

Thank you for your efforts Grahame. I will obviously bow to the knowledge of Phil Round, but did he say on what basis he thinks it a Blue and White? I had convinced myself it was Zappey's due to the none-contrasting blue breast. Does he consider that intermedia can have this feature? If so does that mean Zappey's is very difficult to identify with certainty in the field?

 

[Grahame Walbridge]

Thank you for your efforts Grahame. I will obviously bow to the knowledge of Phil Round, but did he say on what basis he thinks it a Blue and White? I had convinced myself it was Zappey's due to the none-contrasting blue breast. Does he consider that intermedia can have this feature? If so does that mean Zappey's is very difficult to identify with certainty in the field?

Phil's precise words were 'likely intermedia' which does not imply 100% certainty or, implies of level of uncertainty which, is very likely down to the light/colour balance issues referred to by Brian. Yes, they can be very tricky in the field. Whether you count it as one or the other species or, Zappey's/B&W is entirely your decision.

Grahame