Go Alpha or upgrade possible? (1 Viewer)

[MatthiasGr]

Hi all,

you might remember me from my search for a Bino where I got a lot of very good input.
I'm very pleased with my Swaro 10x30 Companion but had a need for a scope as I'm living directly at the Danube and like to look at the local waterfowl.

So i searched the forum and bought a Svbony SV406P - was super surprised how sharp the picture is, really nice for 275€.
Apart from the size, I'm pretty satisfied.

I take the tripod and the spotting scope with me on the bicycle and also plan to visit more distant bird sanctuaries (round trips can be up to 100km) - that's why I anyway would like to switch to something smaller than the Svbony.
Unfortunately, I made the mistake of looking through a Swarovski ATC 17-40 at the local dealer.
The field of view and the viewing experience were so incredibly amazing - just WOW - I almost wanted to take it with me, fortunately there wasn't enough money on my credit card.
I'm still not an ornithologist or full time birder, so 2200€ seems to be overkill for my needs.

Is there a way to get the benefits of the ATC (field of view and large entrance lens) for less money, while maintaining the optical quality of the Svbony (which is completely sufficient for me in terms of sharpness)?

 

[jring]

Hi,

if you are ok with using the scope at a single magnification a Nikon FS ED50 with either the 27/40/50x wide (2.7 deg tfov at 27x) or 40/60/75x wide (1.9 deg tfov at 40x) come to mind. Slightly darker due to 6mm less aperture but also smaller and lighter than the Swaro... can be had new for less than 1k and used probably 600€ or less if you are lucky...

Another idea would be the Opticron MM4 60mm with SDL4... new also around 1000€ but not easy to get inside EU and from UK it might be a hazzle with extra payments or even a visit to customs... otoh there seems to be an action with a free smartphone adapter with some UK Opticron dealers at the 818 quid retail price...
Slightly larger and 70g heavier though.
It will be significantly narrower than the Swaro at the low mag end with 2.7 deg tfov at 15x (as compared to 3.5 at 17x for Swaro) and about the same at the high mag end with 1.8 deg tfov at 45x (as compared to 1.9 at 40x for Swaro). These numbers are for the predecessor of the current SDLv4 called SDLv3 as I have not found afov numbers for the newer one yet, but the SDLv4 is said to be a tad wider.

Joachim

 

[MatthiasGr]

I'm not sure if I can get along with a fixed magnification.
It was very nice to zoom out for finding the birds before zooming in for details..
But seems even the single mag. oculars are behind the FOV of the Swaro?

 

[jring]

Hi,

I personally use my SDLv2 zoom very rarely at less than the max 54x and do searching via bins and then aim through the cable tie trick... but that's just me...

As for tfov, the swaro states 3.5 deg at 17x and 1.9 deg at 40x. The 27x fieldscope EP offers 2.7 deg, not quite sure what the swaro has at that magnification, but probably around the same or a bit less. The 40x fieldscope EP offers the same 1.9 deg as the swaro.
There is also a 16/24/30x wide EP for the fieldscopes - this offers 4.5 deg at 16x.

Joachim

 

[MatthiasGr]

Might be some practice and the cable tie trick I didn't consider yet, need to try this one out!

That Nikon 27/40/50x wide - is this a set of oculars or do I need to chose one of the magnifications?
If I get 3 for ~330€, and can switch them if needed, that would be ok for me too I think.
***okay, just understood it is related to the diameter of the scope, but I think 27x will not do it for me as I was always around 40x with the Svbony

 

[jring]

Hi,

no, the classic Fieldscope EPs always have always 3 magnifications given - for 50mm, 60mm and 78/82mm bodies... So unless you buy a larger classic fieldscope later, you will get only the lowest given magnification with the 50mm body for each...

Joachim

 

[Hermann]

So i searched the forum and bought a Svbony SV406P - was super surprised how sharp the picture is, really nice for 275€.
Apart from the size, I'm pretty satisfied.

Sounds good. However, did you ever look through a top quality 80mm scope? Like a Kowa or a Swaro? The thing is that particular Svbony is basically as cheap as cheap scopes go. Even if you got a "good" one it's probably still pretty mediocre compared to "really" good scopes. (BTW, the only Svbony SV406P I've ever seen in the field wasn't a cherry, and it wasn't even mediocre. Yours seems to be better.)

I take the tripod and the spotting scope with me on the bicycle and also plan to visit more distant bird sanctuaries (round trips can be up to 100km) - that's why I anyway would like to switch to something smaller than the Svbony.

Yes, but ... With scopes size matters, especially if you want to use high magnifications. I've got the three sizes of Nikon Fieldscopes, 50mm, 60mm and 82mm. The 60mm is clearly better than the 50mm, and the 82mm is clearly better than the 60mm. OTOH the size and weight difference is quite considerable, so in the end you need to make sure you find a compromise between price, size and weight that works for you. For "comfortable" observation you relly want an exit pupil of at least 1.5mm, or better 2mm. So if you want to use 40x, like you mention in a later post, you need a 60-80mm objective.

Unfortunately, I made the mistake of looking through a Swarovski ATC 17-40 at the local dealer.
The field of view and the viewing experience were so incredibly amazing - just WOW - I almost wanted to take it with me, fortunately there wasn't enough money on my credit card.

Yep, that's one of the top "small" scopes. The other one is the small Kowa (TSN55A). Did you do a comparison between the ATC and the Svbony? From your description it sounds as though you found the ATC better, or even a lot better than the Svbony - even though the Svbony has got the advantage of a much larger objective lens. There's obviously a clear-cut quality difference between the Swarovski and the Svbony, as it should be, given the price difference. With scopes - more so than with binoculars - the old rule "You get what you pay for" still stands.

I'm still not an ornithologist or full time birder, so 2200€ seems to be overkill for my needs.

Is there a way to get the benefits of the ATC (field of view and large entrance lens) for less money, while maintaining the optical quality of the Svbony (which is completely sufficient for me in terms of sharpness)?

No, probably not if you want to use the scope at high magnifications. The Swaro and the Kowa TSN-55A are both expensive, the Nikon ED50 doesn't come with a wide-angle zoom eyepiece, and the good old WA eyepieces are hard to find, except for the DS eyepieces. And quite frankly, the DS 27/40/50x is the highest magnification I'd want to use as my standard eyepiece on the ED50. If you want to have access to higher magnifications you'd be best off using the zoom (13-40x/20-60x/25-75x) but that's narrow and pretty hard to use for wearers of eyeglasses. It's a far cry from modern wideangle zoom - although optically still first class.

What I'd do: I'd suggest you keep the Svbony you've already got and use it whenever you can cope with the size and weight. You like the optics, so I'd keep it. For trips when you feel you can't cope with the size and weight of the Svbony I'd get a Kowa TSN-501. Small, light, and cheap. Works pretty well up to ~30x, perhaps a bit more. Fairly narrow zoom though. There's a very good review here: Kowa TSN-501 - a brief review Quite a nice scope considering the price.

And if, after using both scopes for a while, you feel you want something better, you get a top scope, like a Swarovski ATS65 with the 25-50x zoom or a Kowa 66A.

Hermann

 

[Richard D]

The 60 mm Fieldscope III are still very cheap 2nd hand and 40x fixed eyepieces do crop up, particularly if you don't mind older ones with less modern coatings - for me it's a good compromise between portability and maximum performance, but it really depends on your individual usage...

 

[MatthiasGr]

Sounds good. However, did you ever look through a top quality 80mm scope? Like a Kowa or a Swaro? The thing is that particular Svbony is basically as cheap as cheap scopes go. Even if you got a "good" one it's probably still pretty mediocre compared to "really" good scopes.

Didn‘t try out other big scopes as this was not my main category to look for.
I‘ll also not try to spoil my impression of the Svbony as it‘s good enough for my needs (I don‘t like my formerly loved Vortex Bino anymore after buying the Swaro Companion…).

What I'd do: I'd suggest you keep the Svbony you've already got and use it whenever you can cope with the size and weight. You like the optics, so I'd keep it. For trips when you feel you can't cope with the size and weight of the Svbony I'd get a Kowa TSN-501. Small, light, and cheap. Works pretty well up to ~30x, perhaps a bit more. Fairly narrow zoom though. There's a very good review here: Kowa TSN-501 - a brief review Quite a nice scope considering the price.

I tested the TSN-501 today against the Svbony.
It‘s definately worth the size and weight to take the big one.
Lot brighter and easier to look through and yes, beyond 30x, the Kowa struggles to keep a sharp image, not to mention the super hard turning zoom piece.

So, as I‘m really not willing to spend the money now on a ATC or anything similar, I‘ll go with the Svbony and see if I‘ll do enough birding with it to justify the upgrade.
Either with mini scopes or the big ones, I‘ll have to see if I will be happy carrying tripod, scope and bino with me or if it‘s not my style and I rather invest in a Pure NL 12x42.

Thanks anyway for the inputs!

 

[DRodrigues]

...
Is there a way to get the benefits of the ATC (field of view and large entrance lens) for less money, while maintaining the optical quality of the Svbony (which is completely sufficient for me in terms of sharpness)?

It might, if the SVBony Superzoom reaches focus on your scope ...
You might ask to SVBony if it reaches focus but I'm not sure if they will give you the right answer... You can always order from SVBony Germany and send it back if it doesn't reach focus.

 

[Hermann]

... or if it‘s not my style and I rather invest in a Pure NL 12x42.

Before you invest in an NL 12x42, you might want to look at stabilized binoculars. At 12x handheld you are at an efficiency of ~62%, so you'll see about as much as with a 7.5x binocular on a tripod.

Hermann

 

[MatthiasGr]

How do you calculate efficiency?

 

[Hermann]

How do you calculate efficiency?

PM sent.

You might also want to have a look at this thread: Canon 10x42 IS L Tripod vs hand-held vs IS testing That's a classic thread by Kimmo on the efficiency of stabilizers, comparing the (excellent) Nikon 10x42 SE against the Canon 10x42 L IS.

Hermann