juv Caspian Gull from August 2005 (1 Viewer)

[Lancey]

Dear all,
Is this gull a juvenile Caspian Gull? It was very pale and contrasting in plumage with a striking tail band. The feature that I am not so sure of is the greater coverts which have little in the way of markings (they are actually more like a Herring Gull).

I'd appreciate it if I could have a second (or more) opinion on this gull please.

Thanks,
Lancey

 

[JANJ]

Hi agai Lancey,

Now that´s good one!
Immediate impression is of a not so typical Caspian Gull, and the not so typical, if you like, are the greater coverts, to barred, the tail band to narow, especially on the outer tail feathers, some of the the lower scapulars with notched edges, the darkish earcoverts and the tips of the inner primaries, obvious clubb like tips
What looks good for Caspian are the head shape, with the slooping forehead, the bill and the tertials, but from there, it looks more like a Yellow-legged Gull to me, which I choose to deside it might be - before starting with that hybrid theory.

Compare with these:

http://www.elisanet.fi/antero.lindholm/public_html/lokki/caceHko.htm

http://www.elisanet.fi/antero.lindholm/public_html/lokki/kaketaraukraina.htm

http://www.elisanet.fi/antero.lindholm/public_html/lokki/ammass.htm
the bottom bird is a Yellow-legged Gull (Etelänkarmaalokki)

This one is in Swedish Lancey, but you can check all the good images:

http://www.skof.se/rrk/id/trut/trut.html

Medelhavstrut = Yellow-legged
Kaspisk trut = Caspian Gull
Gråtrut = Herring Gull
Havstrut = GBBG
Silltrut = LBBG

JanJ

 

[PaulK]

I'm no real expert with gulls but i'd have to agree with JanJ. I don't think it looks quite right for a Caspian - as JanJ said it could be a hybrid.

 

[lou salomon]

hello all,

head shape wise juvenile and 1st win micha seems to show quite often a longish head with sloping forehead. remember this:

http://www.birdforum.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=31115 (a shiver of pain in...)

when seeing the 5th picture: this is a typical YLG tail, isn't it? i would like to see some molted scaps, but i'm blind in this respect. see that one very notched tertial in pic 4? strange. edit: now i see it is a lower scapular, the one that i was looking for...
its face says michahellis to me too.

thaaankss for that excellent link, jan, good overview there (the last one)´

 

[JANJ]

PaulK,
I didn´t really suggest a hybrid, but thought that others might. Not that a hybrid theory is utterly wrong, but hybrids are rare, individual variation is more common. Struckture is sometimes more important than the occasional odd individual feathers. For instance, the subject gull doesn´t strike me as a Caspian on head size, to big - full necked, and there´s to much belly on it as well, of course dependable on stance and so forth, but it has it in all the 3 first images.

Take a look at these (head shapes)

http://mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/wightvogels/ylgull1.html

http://www.netfugl.dk/pictures.php?id=showpicture&picture_id=7817

and how about this then:

http://www.netfugl.dk/pictures.php?id=showpicture&picture_id=28

JanJ

 

[Dimitris]

Hi all.

Yes if I saw this bird at my local beach I dout I would look at it again: Yellow-legged Gull for me as well. As the others have said head shape just right for Y.L.G.

Happy Gulling.

Still loking for a Laughing Gull...

Dimi

 

[Lancey]

juv YL Gull

Dear all,
Thanks for your replies. I hadn't read your comments earlier because I had difficulties uploading this thread and thought that I would have to re-post it. I'm pleased to see it did get onto the forum after all.

I recall this bird really had me confused when I saw it; the pale belly and undertail coverts, the poorly marked greater coverts and the headshape - a juvenile Caspian Gull was all I could think of. I actually dismissed juvenile Yellow-Legged Gull mainly of the structure which I considered to be more Caspian-like. If it is a Yellow-Legged Gull, then that would explain why I haven't found a photo of a juvenile Caspian Gull looking quite like this bird.

The tail band did strike me as being rather narrow for a Caspian Gull admittedly. Now you mention it, it does actually become narrow at the edges which is quoted as a Yellow-Legged Gull feature I believe. Hopefully I'll recognise a juvenile Caspian Gull if I see one this year!

Lancey