Kowa tsn664 or tsn 824 (1 Viewer)

[Jrandall]

I need a little advice. Been using a Kowa tsn 884 for last 6 years and since I’ve made it to my 80’s I don’t use a scope as much so I gave it to my son. Had 25-60 eyepiece, 25 LER eyepiece , 1.6 extender , and celestial adapter.
Replaced it with an Athlon Cronus , which is a good scope but certainly not in the same ballpark.
There are 2 pretty good deals on eBay right now Kowa tsn 824 and Kowa tsn 664
My question is which of these am I going to be more satisfied with ? I know some are going to say tsn 66A but I can’t afford another $2500
Am I going to be disappointed in either or maybe even a tsn 774 for about $1300 could be but I know it doesn’t have fluorite but seems to have great reviews as does the 664
Any help appreciated because I’m not happy with cronus

 

[Grando]

I need a little advice. Been using a Kowa tsn 884 for last 6 years and since I’ve made it to my 80’s I don’t use a scope as much so I gave it to my son. Had 25-60 eyepiece, 25 LER eyepiece , 1.6 extender , and celestial adapter.
Replaced it with an Athlon Cronus , which is a good scope but certainly not in the same ballpark.
There are 2 pretty good deals on eBay right now Kowa tsn 824 and Kowa tsn 664
My question is which of these am I going to be more satisfied with ? I know some are going to say tsn 66A but I can’t afford another $2500
Am I going to be disappointed in either or maybe even a tsn 774 for about $1300 could be but I know it doesn’t have fluorite but seems to have great reviews as does the 664
Any help appreciated because I’m not happy with cronus

Well, I own both (well the angled versions) and think both are fantastic scopes. I'd say your main consideration is how you tend to use them... I take out my 823 when I'm seawatching – particularly for scanning very distant Eider and Scoter flocks in the winter when heat haze isn't a problem. I use a Baader Hyperion Zoom (goes to around 52x at full zoom, which is very nice) as my main lens on that, plus the Kowa extender with the 45xWA eyepiece (50x on the 823) for a massive 80x when I need more reach. This is eminently usable when the seeing conditions allow.

For more general birding, or if I'm walking a long way, I take out the 663 with the new 30x eyepiece on it, and it's an excellent scope. Lighter to lug around (I use it on a smaller tripod too) and at 30x there's not really any difference in the view/resolution when comparing the two. The extra light gathering of the 823 becomes more noticeable really only when you require more magnification.

One other consideration – the Baader eyepiece doesn't fit on the 663, so if you prefer a zoom option then you have to go with Kowa's own option; I think the 30x is the best eyepiece for that scope though, personally. So, when comparing the two deals pay close attention to what eyepieces come with them, whether stay-on cases are included etc. Bear in mind that there's an adaptor that you can get too that allows you to use 663-series eyepieces on the 823; you can use the 663 1.6x adaptor out of the box on both, however, as there's a piece you unscrew to allow it to fit onto the 823.

I don't think there's much difference in quality between an 823 and an 883, as both are full fluorite; the main difference would seem to be that the wide-angle newer zoom eyepiece on the 883 is a considerable step up on the in-house options you have for the 823 (or indeed the 663). The Baader on the 823 is certainly very good, but only goes to c. 52x (not 60x) and isn't parfocal. But I'd recommend the Baader if you go down the 823 route and want a zoom as a very decent option.

 

[Jrandall]

Well, I own both (well the angled versions) and think both are fantastic scopes. I'd say your main consideration is how you tend to use them... I take out my 823 when I'm seawatching – particularly for scanning very distant Eider and Scoter flocks in the winter when heat haze isn't a problem. I use a Baader Hyperion Zoom (goes to around 52x at full zoom, which is very nice) as my main lens on that, plus the Kowa extender with the 45xWA eyepiece (50x on the 823) for a massive 80x when I need more reach. This is eminently usable when the seeing conditions allow.

For more general birding, or if I'm walking a long way, I take out the 663 with the new 30x eyepiece on it, and it's an excellent scope. Lighter to lug around (I use it on a smaller tripod too) and at 30x there's not really any difference in the view/resolution when comparing the two. The extra light gathering of the 823 becomes more noticeable really only when you require more magnification.

One other consideration – the Baader eyepiece doesn't fit on the 663, so if you prefer a zoom option then you have to go with Kowa's own option; I think the 30x is the best eyepiece for that scope though, personally. So, when comparing the two deals pay close attention to what eyepieces come with them, whether stay-on cases are included etc. Bear in mind that there's an adaptor that you can get too that allows you to use 663-series eyepieces on the 823; you can use the 663 1.6x adaptor out of the box on both, however, as there's a piece you unscrew to allow it to fit onto the 823.

I don't think there's much difference in quality between an 823 and an 883, as both are full fluorite; the main difference would seem to be that the wide-angle newer zoom eyepiece on the 883 is a considerable step up on the in-house options you have for the 823 (or indeed the 663). The Baader on the 823 is certainly very good, but only goes to c. 52x (not 60x) and isn't parfocal. But I'd recommend the Baader if you go down the 823 route and want a zoom as a very decent option.

Thank you for the reply and information. I opted for the 664 and didn’t pay attention and ordered the 604 by mistake and the seller would not compromise so I guess I’ll have an tsn 604. It’s supposed to be a good one and if not I’ll sell it and go with the tsn 664 I meant to buy. I decided against the 824 because it was so close to 883 and that’s just too much scope for me now. Thank you again

 

[kabsetz]

It might be too late, but at your age and with the kind of use you have, the Kowa 55A would be just about perfect. You could get a lighter weight tripod and video head, and a truly compact and easy-to-carry scope with superb image quality. The downside would be magnifications topping at 40x, and a new upside would be wider fields and mags down to 17x. It is pretty expensive, but worth it in my view.

 

[Grando]

I'd say that the 604 is a great scope, and for up to 30x you won't have any issues. And it's nice and light!

 

[Jrandall]

Seems I bought the 604 thinking I was getting 664. No problem , I’ll get 30x wide and 16s extender which will give me 48 wide angle and that should be all I need.
Thank you so much for the repliies

 

[GrumpyBuzzard]

The 664 is marginally better than the 604 due to size of aperture. It's also handier to use, the 664 being more compact than 824.

The extender on the 604 would be using it to its limits but will work fine.

 

[Jrandall]

The 664 is marginally better than the 604 due to size of aperture. It's also handier to use, the 664 being more compact than 824.

The extender on the 604 would be using it to its limits but will work fine.

Unbelievably, I recieved the tsn 604 from Japan that I ordered on April 21 and today, April 24 it was delivered to my doorstep! Amazing! FedEx is number uno! Was a little dismayed at the size, since I was used to the 884, but I mounted it to tripod and took it out of town to the country side, and other than the picky eyebox on the non wide angle eyepiece , it did not disappoint. Just as clear as my 884 was and just smoked lesser brands. Already ordered the 30x wide and will get the 16s extender, so couple that with the 30x and I’ll be fixed 48 which should do all I need.
I agree that the extender and the 20–60 will be stretching the limits, as it did on the 884. 96 power was not nearly as clear as 60 but it was good up to about 80 but that was the new wide angle eyepiece.
Thanks for the input