Pallid harier? (1 Viewer)

[Michał Jaro]

Hello,
I know the photos are tragic (twilight) but it seems to me that I have a Pallid harier (Poland, Podhale, today). In one of the photos you can see 4 "fingers", no drawing on the wing (or outline) which excludes Montagus. And it seems that on Primaries there is not much of this blackness.
Can you confirm?

 

[Jinac]

I don't know if expert could be categoric on theses pics but i'll bet on the Hen harrier. The geographic area better corresponding and the black zone at the end of the wing seems quite vast

 

[TheBlackGrouse]

The full wingtip seems to be black and I don't think we can see the drawing on the wing, if it's there, with these pictures, so I would not exclude Montagu's harrier. No offense of course, these males are fast and are gone in seconds, at least you have record shots.

 

[Michał Jaro]

Of course thanks to you, nothing can be added to your interpretations. I am grateful for the opinions!
But looking at the figure, is there an option for palid/montagus?
or also Hen?

 

[tconzemi]

I don't see a Hen Harrier here, to slim. Monty maybe, Pallid possible

 

[TheBlackGrouse]

Do you remember anything of the flight?

For instance, a male Montagu's harrier flies like a tern, dancing in the air, his body is moving up and down with the wing beats. A Pallid harrier has a more direct fast flight with powerful wing beats. When hunting birds it sometimes gives the impression of a shearwater, with a fast switchback flight, like on the image below (quite close, after years of sightings at 500 meters and more )

That said, you may have seen a migrating bird. Then most birds have a different flight. But every detail may help.



Pallid harrier, I saw a few years ago, tilting in switchback flight.

 

[Michał Jaro]

Do you remember anything of the flight?

Thank you, I see the thread is not dead
The flight did not resemble at all the one Montagus has with the rolling. My first impression was Pallid or Hen (Yes, I have seen PH before).
What I want to emphasize again - there is no black "drawing" on the top of the wing - despite several shots, it seems to me that traces of the black stripe should be visible. In addition, the whole wing seems quite light, uniform.

 

[TheBlackGrouse]

Trying to use logical reasoning, for argument's sake...

Assuming that traces of the black stripe should be visible, it's not a Montagu's harrier.

Assuming that traces of the black stripe should be visible, we can judge the amount of black on the wingtips. Then Pallid is ruled out.

Leaves us with a slim bird that should be a Hen Harrier.

This is one (not my picture)



Well, I'm not sure, anyone?

 

[tconzemi]

I'm sure that a black bar on secondaries would be completely invisible on these pictures, same for the exact shape of black on fingers. Furthermore the nice example of a Hen Harrier posted by @TheBlackGrouse in approximately same quality shows the much heavier body and hand of Hen.
But if @Michał Jaro is confident not seeing this bar in the field with binos (not camera), then it should be Pallid

 

[Michał Jaro]

Thanks a lot for the further explanation. No, I'm not sure if I saw this feature through binoculars.

I'll have to leave it and wait for another opportunity