Shooting lapwings - illegal? (1 Viewer)

[Al Downie]

Yesterday, on the road to Ouse Washes, I was dismayed to see two men with shotguns raise their guns and fire into a flock of lapwings. I'm not very familiar with the law regarding shooting of wild birds, but I'm fairly sure people aren't allowed to indiscriminately shoot anything that's flying past - can anyone clarify?

Al

 

[Andrew Rowlands]

I'm fairly sure that Lapwings are now fully protected, do you carry a camera, Al?

Andy.

 

[Andrew Rowlands]

"Like most British birds, the lapwing is granted legal protection under the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981 (as amended). They are not listed in Annex I of the EU Birds Directive but on Annex II/2 which means that they can be hunted in certain (indicated) member states of the EU. They can be shot in the UK only under licence (which may be granted, for example, for safety reasons at airfields)."

From http://www.lbap.org.uk/HTML/Species/Lapwing.htm

Andy.

 

[yellow_belly]

Hi - have a look at this link Chapter 14, its guidance for the Police from the Home Office...

http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/docs/policeguide.pdf

Terry

 

[GreatHornedOwl]

Can anyone from the UK explain what "black game" is? Now don't tell me that they're actually SHOOTING Black grouse overthere while we do all we can to protect them.

 

[Andrew Rowlands]

Can anyone from the UK explain what "black game" is? Now don't tell me that they're actually SHOOTING Black grouse overthere while we do all we can to protect them.

Blackcock and Greyhen = Black Grouse.

Yes they can (apparently) be shot "(in Scotland) Heathfowl(black game) between 21 August and 9 December".

Andy.

 

[helenh]

Can anyone from the UK explain what "black game" is? Now don't tell me that they're actually SHOOTING Black grouse overthere while we do all we can to protect them.

Black Game is indeed another name for Black Grouse and they can be shot in the open season (21 August or 2 September through to 9 December - except on Sundays).

 

[Andrew Rowlands]

- except on Sundays).

"In England and Wales it is also an
offence to kill or take game on a Sunday or
Christmas Day during the open season.
Specifically, the Sunday shooting of
waterfowls and waders is not permitted in the
following English and Welsh counties and
boroughs (or the areas they once covered):
Anglesey, Brecknock, Caernarvon,
Carmarthen, Cardigan, Cornwall, Denbigh,
Devon, Doncaster, Glamorgan, Great
Yarmouth County Borough, Isle of Ely,
Leeds County Borough, Merioneth, Norfolk,
Pembroke, Somerset, North & West Ridings
of Yorkshire.

Although there are no statutory
restrictions on game shooting on Sundays
or Christmas Day during the open season in
Scotland it is customary that shooting on a
Sunday should only take place after noon in
order to prevent the disturbance of church
services."

How complicated can it get?

I am in favour of removing some species from the 'allowed list'.

Black Grouse is one.

Andy.

 

[Al Downie]

do you carry a camera, Al?

Yes, in the boot of the car while we were driving past!

I'm also not sure what the best approach would be with the police. Given their apparent lack of interest in most crimes apart from murder and/or exceeding the speed limit, I doubt they'd respond well to a call saying that 'some people are shooting non-game birds in a location it'll take you 30 minutes to reach".

Thanks for all the advice.

Al

 

[jpoyner]

Yes, in the boot of the car while we were driving past!

I'm also not sure what the best approach would be with the police. Given their apparent lack of interest in most crimes apart from murder and/or exceeding the speed limit, I doubt they'd respond well to a call saying that 'some people are shooting non-game birds in a location it'll take you 30 minutes to reach".

Thanks for all the advice.

Al

Best thing to do is try and get a car registration number. Call the local police headquarters and ask to speak specifically to the Wildlife liason Officer, I believe most forces have one which should get you a better reaction.
As with any crime, if a complaint is made by a member of the public then the police are duty bound to investigate. Follow it up afterwards, if they didn't investigate then ask why not.
Crucial is the land they were on. If they weren't the landowners, then they MUST have had permission from them to shoot, otherwise they are committing the much more serious crime of Armed Tresspass which gets you a good few years in the nick!! The police can trace exactly who has permission to shoot on a particular piece of land.
Wildlife crime does seem to be taken more seriously these days so it IS worth trying.

JP.

 

[seb_seb]

Sort these criminals out please,Al!

 

[GreatHornedOwl]

... so they actually shoot Black grouse there in Britain. I believe it has been extirpated (habitat loss) from many parts of the EU, in Belgium fe. this is a Red list species. What a wonderful world.

 

[Andrew Rowlands]

... so they actually shoot Black grouse there in Britain. I believe it has been extirpated (habitat loss) from many parts of the EU, in Belgium fe. this is a Red list species. What a wonderful world.

I think that a lot of shooting 'estates' would frown upon the shooting of Black Grouse; there are similar voluntary bans on the shooting of Grey Partridge in some areas.

Pity that we could not have a blanket ban (legally enforceable) on shooting of these species until the reasons for decline have been assessed and measures taken.

Andy.

 

[Geoff Brown]

I understand that bona fide wildfowlers are able to shoot certain birds in areas such as the Ouse Washes because it has been long established custom. Even with this proviso some birds are still fully protected and it is illegal to shoot them anywhere at anytime. Presumably if they were shooting openly on the Washes then even lapwings are still legal prey there, because in South Lincolnshire the wildlife liason police officer can and does commit criminal offences of this nature to trial and by and large the wildfowlers in this area (the responsible ones anyway) now fully abide by the law. I am sure the neighbouring county's wildfowlers are fully aware with what they can legally shoot and when.

 

[GreatHornedOwl]

I think that a lot of shooting 'estates' would frown upon the shooting of Black Grouse; there are similar voluntary bans on the shooting of Grey Partridge in some areas.

Pity that we could not have a blanket ban (legally enforceable) on shooting of these species until the reasons for decline have been assessed and measures taken.

Andy.

I agree to that, and am glad to hear that a lot of shooting "estates" themselves are willing to cooperate with bans on shooting.

Reasons for the decline... well, my guess for the Grey partridge would be the change of farming methods, as with so many other species.

For the Black grouse, at least in Belgium and the Netherlands, I believe it isn't really 100% clear what has caused the extinction (well, still 18 cocks left in one place in Belgium I think), but it also has a lot to do with habitat loss (heather). Up until over a century ago, there were much, much, much more sheep in the Low Countries (and also more Ravens fe. who depended on dead sheep - Raven is now extinct but reintroduced), and so there was much more heather... populations of Black grouse however have fluctuated in the past also, for unclear reasons (diseases?).
I believe sheep farming is still rather widespread in England and Wales, perhaps that is why you still have reasonably good populations of the Black grouse???

As for the Black grouse in Belgium, well I think it is likely to become the Belgian "Heath hen" if you know what I mean. The area where the last population lives, is also increasingly a recreation area in winter - langlauf, ski etc. ... it's criminal really, but money always wins.

 

[jpoyner]

. Presumably if they were shooting openly on the Washes then even lapwings are still legal prey there, .

I would find this very surprising, I think it is a protected species throughout the UK.

 

[deboo]

Al,
Report the incident at the RSPB office at Ouse Washes...if need be add it to the sightings book.
I'm sure the people who work there will either know the offenders or have a good relationship with the local plods.
I hope that this helps and the morons with guns get kicked where it hurts most...
Dave.

 

[Andrew Whitehouse]

On Black Grouse declines, in Islay in the west of Scotland they have gone from being commonplace 30 years ago to being almost extinct now. There has been a voluntary embargo on shooting them for a while (although this was apparently broken by some) but I think this may have come too late to save the birds on the island.

It was often suggested to me by farmers that a reason for the decline was to do with changes in farming. The grouse used to feed heavily during the late summer and early autumn on stooks of oats that were left after the oats had been harvested. In recent times, oats have fallen out of favour in agriculture and when they are grown they are harvested more intensively so there isn't enough grain left over for the grouse. I heard that the RSPB and SNH had become involved in encouraging the traditional harvesting of oats in Speyside (I think) after finding out (probably from old farmers) that this had been favoured in the past.

Doubtless there are other reasons for the decline (forestation, loss of habitat diversity, disease) but I think changes in farming practice have also been significant. Red Grouse is doing pretty badly on Islay too and both it and Black Grouse have become more-or-less extinct in Fife during the same period.

 

[Michael Frankis]

Doubtless there are other reasons for the decline (forestation, loss of habitat diversity, disease) but I think changes in farming practice have also been significant.

Hi Fifey,

Another very important one is the change from drystone walls to high tensile steel wire fencing. These cause very high mortality in Black Grouse (and Capercaillies) as they can't see them until too late when they fly into them

Michael

 

[nigelblake]

If I were to witness such events I would not hesitate to photograph (or digiscope) the offenders and also take the registration of their vehicles. The pictures and other evidence could then be used to effect a conviction.