Vortex V.I.P (VERY IMPORTANT PROMISE)Warranty in the UK..BOOOOOO (1 Viewer)

[mayoayo]

Hi...An interesting Vortex warranty case has been exposed and comented in a recent thread by forum member mulligatawny owl,titled, "badly scratched oculars..how bad ............" I hope the member that initiated the thread doesnt mind me inviting you to take a look and comment on the issue....
cheers

 

[Pileatus]

Hi...An interesting Vortex warranty case has been exposed and comented in a recent thread by forum member mulligatawny owl,titled, "badly scratched oculars..how bad ............" I hope the member that initiated the thread doesnt mind me inviting you to take a look and comment on the issue....
cheers

The facts are the lenses were improperly cleaned (scratched), Vortex will not replace them under warranty and the Vortex warranty should be modified to include specific exclusions (e.g. improper cleaning damage).

Personally, I don't think any manufacturer should replace improperly cleaned lenses under warranty. It would simply create an army of shirt-tailed cleaning aficionados.

PS
When my SV lenses get scratched I'll expect complimentary lens replacement(s). Hell will be frozen over and the SV focus will be operating smooooothly.

 

[dalat]

Just confirms my feeling that all this warranty boohoo is overrated. From what I read here, sometimes I get the impression that a brand's reputation for it's good service or a full mouthed warrany promise on some website is the number one reason for people to decide on their purchase.

After all, all the top brands provide good warranties, while excluding some things (abuse, accident, etc.). Some are more clear on paper about this, some less. You'll never know what you really get in the case of service/warranty repair, whatever the brand's promise or reputation may be. So I think it's still best to base the buying decision on the quality of the binocular

Anyway I am not so exited about companies fixing just any damage for free, regardless who's fault it is. Because it's not for free, it's included in the buying price. Which means that the people who take care about their gear pay for the dummies who throw their bins on the floor or who don't know how to clean their lenses. I'd prefer some kind of optional insurance to be offered at the time of purchase, for repair of damages which are not due to faults that fall under warranty. That would be more transparent and fair.

 

[mayoayo]

Not many brands offer that type of NO-FAULT warranty,but if they do,a customer is entitled to use it ..The Vortex warranty,as is now,has no exclusions,except for deliberate damage(with intention..like trying to take the ocular apart with a screwdriver,to clean internal dust...for instance)..It is up to each of us to decide what brand we buy,...If you think that buying a brand that has a NO-Fault warranty You are paying for the possible damage that a legion of Shirt-cleaning dummies will inflict to their optics and you prefer a limited warranty ,no problem...If You are a dummie,and You know it,,well...then You might feel that the warranty is a good asset,in case You need to replace your optics .
Its a market...JUST GIVE WHAT YOU OFFER..and get what you pay for...
If vortex,like Celestron did,thinks that they need to end the NO-Fault warranty,or they need to add an exception as per Pileatus suggestion,they should print a notice in their site and let It be the end of the matter...TODAY,they warranty is a NO-Fault UNCONDITIONAL...and they ,in one case,are not honoring it..


Here is the Vortex warranty ,from their site,..It leaves very little to imagination,opinion or speculation



"Our warranty is about you, not us. It's about taking care of you after the sale.

The VIP stands for a Very Important Promise to you, our customers. We will repair or replace your Vortex product in the event it becomes damaged or defective—at no charge to you. It doesn't matter how it happened, whose fault it was, or where you purchased it. You can count on the VIP Warranty for all riflescopes, red dots, rangefinders, binoculars, spotting scopes and monoculars.

Unlimited Lifetime Warranty
Fully transferable
No warranty card to fill out
No receipt needed to hang on to

If you ever have a problem, no matter the cause, we promise to take care of you.

Note
The VIP warranty does not cover loss, theft or deliberate damage to the product.

Tripods are covered by our 3-Year Limited Warranty."

 

[dalat]

It is up to each of us to decide what brand we buy,...If you think that buying a brand that has a NO-Fault warranty You are paying for the possible damage that a legion of Shirt-cleaning dummies will inflict to their optics and you prefer a limited warranty ,no problem...If You are a dummie,and You know it,,well...then You might feel that the warranty is a good asset,in case You need to replace your optics .
Its a market...JUST GIVE WHAT YOU OFFER..and get what you pay for...

The point is, I want to buy a binocular, not a warranty. Some brands like Vortex sell the binoculars with a compulsory insurance for dummies. I'd prefer to have a choice, and decide myself if I want such an insurance or not. I bet if you could save 200 € on a Swaro, or 50 € on a Vortex, many folks would decide that they can actually take care of their gear.

Regarding the discussed case, I agree that a company should stick to their promises, especially to their very important ones. Or more reaslistically, they should be a little more explicit in their disclaimers.

 

[mulligatawny owl]

A key issue here is whether the stipulation: ''The VIP warranty does not cover loss, theft or deliberate damage to the product. " applies to very badly looked after lenses, scratched to the point that they seriously compromise performance.

I can't see how this counts as deliberate, pretty stupid yes, but deliberate no. It would be like saying we cant cover them for getting broken when they fell on the ground because you deliberately tossed them to your friend thinking he would catch them. Both pretty stupid things to do, but in both cases the result is the same, broken binoculars.

Again, I wouldn't expect any other manufacturer to cover the scratched lenses. It would seem like an unworkable warranty open to all sorts of abuse. But Vortex seems pretty unique in their claims, and in this case the claims don't seem to match Vortex's refusal to repair the binoculars.

 

[mulligatawny owl]

Another angle of looking at this has occurred to me. I imagine selling binoculars is a hugely competitive business, every company needs a unique selling point, Vortex's is their seemingly unique and extraordinarily generous warranty. You might say that if this was followed to the very word it would be open to all sorts of abuse, but I imagine Vortex are fully aware of this possibility and balance this against how many extra products they sell because of this unique warranty.
Whichever way you look at it it seems like a cop out on Vortex's part.

 

[ceasar]

These binoculars were not returned to Vortex to examine. One cannot say, under those circumstances, that Vortex would not honor their warranty.

Send them back to Vortex with an explanation of the problem and see what happens.

Bob

 

[mulligatawny owl]

These binoculars were not returned to Vortex to examine. One cannot say, under those circumstances, that Vortex would not honor their warranty.

Send them back to Vortex with an explanation of the problem and see what happens.

Bob

They were sent very detailed photos of the scratched lenses and said NO, simple as that.
Luckily I returned them to the seller and got my money back.

 

[stereotruckdriver]

These binoculars were not returned to Vortex to examine. One cannot say, under those circumstances, that Vortex would not honor their warranty.

Send them back to Vortex with an explanation of the problem and see what happens.

Bob

This is the first thing that came to mind when I originally read the post. But, in hindsite he got a refund! Maybe the original seller should send them in??? Then we could see if Vortex would honor the warranty or just replace occular lenses for a nominal fee? I just sent a 10x42 SLC in for an upgrade, for both occular and objectives the cost was $175 US. I have done this before, Vortex should be able to do the same? Bryce...

 

[ceasar]

This is the first thing that came to mind when I originally read the post. But, in hindsite he got a refund! Maybe the original seller should send them in??? Then we could see if Vortex would honor the warranty or just replace occular lenses for a nominal fee? I just sent a 10x42 SLC in for an upgrade, for both occular and objectives the cost was $175 US. I have done this before, Vortex should be able to do the same? Bryce...

I agree. I didn't make that clear. He was already made whole by the original owner. Sending them back under warranty would be the original owners job. Original owner should give it a shot and see what happens. I doubt if we will find out about it though.

Bob

 

[mulligatawny owl]

In regards to sending them back, I was given no option to in my three correspondences with Vortex. I don't know about others but in my book three no's means message received loud and clear. Remember also that the warranty is fully transferable, no receipt needed, no warranty card to fill out.

I should also point out that my original thread was not primarily concerned with disputing the warranty but with questioning Vortex's statement that ' optically the scratches will not hinder your view or the use of the binoculars'

After referring the Guy from Vortex to the thread, where just about everyone agreed that the scratches would indeed seriously hinder the view, his next email to me appears to backtrack - ' If you are wanting a critical view then yes, these would not be that good and certainly not up to vortex viper standards performing in ' difficult light' which is an asset of the viper range'
May as well look through two toilet rolls then.

So, again, a key point here must be whether the scratches amount to 'deliberate damage ' or not. The oxford dictionary's definition of deliberate reads ' Done consciously and intentionally' Someone please correct me if I'm wrong but I can't for the life of me see how that definition applies to lenses ruined by incorrect cleaning.

 

[mulligatawny owl]

These are smaller versions of the original photos sent to Vortex.
All this fuss might seem a little absurd and it certainly would be with any other manufacturer but Vortex's warranty is no ordinary warranty, they make very direct and definite promises that leave very little room for interpretation. To my mind they are simply not honouring the warranty in this case. I'm more than open to stand corrected on this but so far I've yet to see a flaw in my reasoning or have one pointed out convincingly to me.

 

[Pileatus]

These are smaller versions of the original photos sent to Vortex.
All this fuss might seem a little absurd and it certainly would be with any other manufacturer but Vortex's warranty is no ordinary warranty, they make very direct and definite promises that leave very little room for interpretation. To my mind they are simply not honouring the warranty in this case. I'm more than open to stand corrected on this but so far I've yet to see a flaw in my reasoning or have one pointed out convincingly to me.

The binocular is totally functional and does not require service to operate. Vortex has absolutely no responsibility to change scratched lenses abused by the user.

The warranty is somewhat confusing, however, there is a clear disclaimer regarding deliberate damage. No reasonable owner should expect a manufacturer to replace lenses damaged by careless use.

 

[mulligatawny owl]

The binocular is totally functional and does not require service to operate. Vortex has absolutely no responsibility to change scratched lenses abused by the user.

The warranty is somewhat confusing, however, there is a clear disclaimer regarding deliberate damage. No reasonable owner should expect a manufacturer to replace lenses damaged by careless use.

I'd like this answer to put my mind at rest and allow me to stop puzzling over this damn thing, I really would ( believe it or not I've got better things to do and think about! )
The only trouble is the binocular is NOT totally functional, all those scratches appeared to me in my brief testing to create a lot of haze and stray light, most others seem to agree that the binocular is no longer totally functional at all.
Also, regarding the disclaimer, well that goes back to my problems with the definition of ' deliberate'. And lastly, regarding your point that Vortex has absolutely no responsibility to change scratched lenses abused by the owner, ordinarily I would just automatically assume that was indeed the case but ... well, I'll just copy and paste the warranty info once again :

Our warranty is about you, not us. It's about taking care of you after the sale.
The VIP stands for a Very Important Promise to you, our customers. We will repair or replace your Vortex product in the event it becomes damaged or defective—at no charge to you. It doesn't matter how it happened, whose fault it was, or where you purchased it. You can count on the VIP Warranty for all riflescopes, red dots, rangefinders, binoculars, spotting scopes and monoculars.
Unlimited Lifetime Warranty
Fully transferable
No warranty card to fill out
No receipt needed to hang on to
If you ever have a problem, no matter the cause, we promise to take care of you.
Note
The VIP warranty does not cover loss, theft or deliberate damage to the product.
Tripods are covered by our 3-Year Limited Warranty.

 

[Mono]

I too would count incompetent cleaning as "deliberate damage".

 

[Chosun Juan]

The Chief Justice has ruled .....

....Here is the Vortex warranty ,from their site,..

"Our warranty is about you, not us. It's about taking care of you after the sale.

The VIP stands for a Very Important Promise to you, our customers. We will repair or replace your Vortex product in the event it becomes damaged or defective—at no charge to you. It doesn't matter how it happened, whose fault it was, or where you purchased it. You can count on the VIP Warranty for all riflescopes, red dots, rangefinders, binoculars, spotting scopes and monoculars.

Unlimited Lifetime Warranty
Fully transferable
No warranty card to fill out
No receipt needed to hang on to

If you ever have a problem, no matter the cause, we promise to take care of you.

Note
The VIP warranty does not cover loss, theft or deliberate damage to the product.

Tripods are covered by our 3-Year Limited Warranty."

..... So, again, a key point here must be whether the scratches amount to 'deliberate damage ' or not. The oxford dictionary's definition of deliberate reads ' Done consciously and intentionally' Someone please correct me if I'm wrong but I can't for the life of me see how that definition applies to lenses ruined by incorrect cleaning.

..... To my mind ......

I'm more than open to stand corrected on this but so far I've yet to see a flaw in my reasoning or have one pointed out convincingly to me.

Mulligatawny .......

The Vortex Warranty seems quite clear to me.

You will be covered EXCEPT if the damage is deliberate.

You have correctly identified the definition of the word "deliberate" as the crux of the matter.

Here's how I see it:-

The 'act' of cleaning the lenses was deliberate, though no damage was 'intended' to be caused by this deliberate act. Therefore the damage is unintentional, and thus accidental (supported by the definition of the word) ....... *however* , this is subject to an all important and overriding qualification:

Case1. IF the accidental damage was caused in one 'single' instance only, then you have a leg to stand on, and Vortex should honour the warranty.

Case2. IF the accidental damage was caused over 'multiple' cleaning attempts, then after the third event (for confirmation), the fact that the cleaning process was causing unintended damage as a by-product, would be reasonably apparent. Further cleaning using the same (or similar) processes such that damage continues to occur can then no longer be deemed accidental, or unintended. Then you would have no leg to stand on, and Vortex would NOT be obligated to "repair or replace your Vortex product ..... —at no charge to you".


I haven't read the details of the case, however a cursory glance at the photos shows much damage, which I might reasonably expect to have occurred over multiple cleaning events - certainly long enough to notice the damage and cease causing more. I don't know if this is Vortex's reasoning - but it would be impossible to argue with.

I read the 'intention' of the Warranty as having an implied "MNC" clause .... "Muppets Not Covered" .....


Glad it worked out for you in the end anyway, with a full refund from the seller. :t:



Chosun :gh:

 

[mulligatawny owl]

Thanks Chosun, you have provided some much needed zen like clarity on the matter
I guess in the end this could turn into an endless spiral of puzzling over semantics rather than reason so I shall bow out gracefully before its too late and I go mad! )

 

[stereotruckdriver]

The binocular is totally functional and does not require service to operate. Vortex has absolutely no responsibility to change scratched lenses abused by the user.

The warranty is somewhat confusing, however, there is a clear disclaimer regarding deliberate damage. No reasonable owner should expect a manufacturer to replace lenses damaged by careless use.

Well my question is??? Does Vortex have the ability to change the lenses? If not no matter what the warranty states I don't want to purchase a disposable binocular! I can do that at Walmart! Bryce...

 

[ceasar]

Nobody will ever really know because they weren't sent back to Vortex under their warranty policy. I hope the original owner does it. How hard can it be to put in new oculars? Take them out of one in stock if you have to! And how expensive can it be if one has to pay for them? Certainly much less than the binocular originally cost.

Bob