What attacked this lamb? (Scotland, UK) (1 Viewer)

[saluki]

A quick warning - the attached pics are fairly graphic.

My aunty took her dogs for a walk one afternoon last month and came across an injured lamb. It was obvious the lamb needed putting down as soon as possible. She managed to get the lamb into a shed (she's part-time shepherd on the farm) then phoned my uncle, who shot the lamb with a .22 rifle.

The farm's in Mid-Argyll, mainly hill ground surrounded by commercial forestry. The well-grown (4 month old) lamb was still very much alive when found and wasn't easily caught. The wound was fresh and had probably occurred in the last 24hrs (some blow-fly eggs but no sign of maggots). The lamb showed no signs that it had been trapped in bramble, barbed-wire, etc, but that factor can't be ruled out. Apart from the horrific head wound and a few bite marks around the tail, the lamb was otherwise unmarked (the specks of blood on the fleece are mainly from the .22 bullet). Unfortunately, no-one thought to skin the carcass, which may have revealed more information.

We've ruled out injury from farm machinery or vehicle, and it doesn't look like a dog attack. The bite marks around the tail would indicate fox or, possibly, badger, but it doesn't look like a typical fox/badger attack.

Anybody any thoughts?

Jonathan

 

[CornishExile]

Interesting. You haven't got any photos of the hindquarter bite marks by any chance?

Most dog attacks I've seen on sheep (and there've been a fair few over the years) involve throat wounds, which are clearly absent here - that said, the fact that the lamb was still alive means the attack was not seen through to a conclusion. I wonder if a young, smaller breed of dog would grasp and rat a sheep's muzzle?

That's one scenario. The only other one that seems likely is that the lamb was in some way entangled and attracted some fox attention before freeing itself. The muzzle wound though doesn't look typical for me for a fox attack.

I'm sure given the location you're able to be categorical about a vehicle impact being out of the question, but that head wound looks exactly like one caused by a glancing blow from a car (and goodness knows I see enough lambs here on Shetland every year with similar car-inflicted wounds).

Sorry to not have an unequivocal answer!

Jon

 

[Farnboro John]

Muzzle holding and hindquarter attacks are regularly shown in wolf and other dog hunting programmes and I would think that would be the obvious suspect. The fact that the attack stopped short of a kill suggests that either the lamb was strong enough to escape a fit predator (seems unlikely) or the attacker was frightened/called off. If frightened off you would expect it to return once the danger passed. No doubt plenty of other scenarios could be constructed but an uncontrolled dog seems the most likely to me.

John

 

[gw4aurora]

Hi Jonathan,

I have seen injuries like this inflicted by dogs/dog when we had the family farm, although it may not be the cause here. As the lamb had bites back and front it has been chased down, I have never seen a fox do this with a lamb that size and we can also rule out a badger attack I think.
Do you get hunters/poachers on the land at night maybe a loose dog has had a go.

Chris.

 

[Pluvius]

My parents being sheep farmers in Ireland. I would suggest dogs and probably more than one. I think it unlikely to be fox and definately not badger. I have seen the aftermath of a three dog attack on a flock it was horrific and at least eight had to be put down and were walking around with awful injuries.

 

[Peewit]

My parents being sheep farmers in Ireland. I would suggest dogs and probably more than one. I think it unlikely to be fox and definately not badger. I have seen the aftermath of a three dog attack on a flock it was horrific and at least eight had to be put down and were walking around with awful injuries.

I am thinking here what may have caused this.

The first thing that goes through my mind is the fact the lamb have been attacked by dogs. It was probabily left near dead, and other animals have eaten away at the animal before it had the chance to die. Cruel death.

Crows go for the eyes, foxes, BoP add their quota to eating the remains. They seem to sense if something is for the taking as they are opportunists by nature.

I have stayed at one farm (out of three farm rentals), and in this property the dogs next door where nothing but trouble, and killed and mauled lambs and sheep in one night (caused sheep to give premature birth through being half frightened to death in the process) in the field next to our bungalow.

The local farmer was very angry by this, and shoot the dogs for being on his land (2 large cross breeds). The people who owned the dogs bought 3 new ones and they where just as out of control as the previous 2 dogs. So there was a lot of hostility between the farmer (our landlord) and the neighbours next door to us.

The new dogs were so bad they would bound up to you and knock you right over, as they had not been trained to know how to behave at all. They where frightening to me let alone livestock

So IMHO, I would say it is dogs who caused the injuries intially, and other wildlife has eaten away at the animal in turn.

The second lesser thing would be that the lamb may have be weak in some way, or suffered some illness, and was easy pickings for a dog, fox etc.. So fate may had been its downfall at the end of the day.

 

[pe'rigin]

I stand to be corrected, but I think a farmer can legally shoot a loose dog within a sheep field, I had to remind a couple of this on the South Downs a couple of weeks ago that their dog should be on a lead in the field with sheep.

 

[PhilW]

My secretary lives on a farm in N Wales. Several years ago her working sheep dog wandered onto the next farm and was promptly shot - even though the farmer knew who's dog it was. It was literally 5 metres through the boundary gate. No explanation, no apologies. It was loose on his land.

 

[Farnboro John]

Unusual for me but I'm practically alongside the farmers on this one. Dogs in the countryside must be under control. That doesn't necessarily mean on leads but if not they must be in sight and sufficiently trained to return at call no matter what they are up to.

That is not carte blanche for farmers to shoot dogs just for presence on land but they should get the benefit of the doubt, its their livelihood.

John

 

[CornishExile]

I stand to be corrected, but I think a farmer can legally shoot a loose dog within a sheep field, I had to remind a couple of this on the South Downs a couple of weeks ago that their dog should be on a lead in the field with sheep.

You're absolutely right. If a farmer has reasonable cause to believe that a free-running dog is causing his stock distress, he is perfectly within his rights to summarily shoot it.

ce

 

[Peewit]

You're absolutely right. If a farmer has reasonable cause to believe that a free-running dog is causing his stock distress, he is perfectly within his rights to summarily shoot it.

ce

The dogs that where shot in my case by the local farmer happened, while I was living in Central Scotland

The farmer involved here believed what he did was the right thing to do in his case, with no qualms attached at all.

Do the Scottish and English Laws differ here when it comes to shooting dogs, for harassing livestock. Just interested?

 

[Henry B]

The dogs that where shot in my case by the locall farmer, happened, while I was living in Central Scotland

The farmer involved here believed what he did was the right thing to do in his case, with no qualms attached at all.

Do the Scottish and English Laws differ here when it comes to shooting dogs, for harassing livestock. Just interested?

I,m sure the same laws apply here also.

 

[saluki]

Hi,

Thanks for the responses. The general consensus seems to be that this was a dog attack, but it doesn't look like that to me, nor my uncle who handled the carcass (he's an experienced naturalist, 35 years with the FC, initially as a stalker before moving into conservation).

The majority of dogs are inexperienced in killing large animals and tend to latch on to the nearest part of any fleeing animal - usually the back end. They often inflict a large amount of damage before finally killing, simply because they don't know what they're doing. Wild dogs will subdue prey by grabbing the nose or upper lip of larger animals, but I've never seen or heard of this method being used by domestic dogs. The farm's pretty remote and has never had problems with stray dogs as far as I know.

Not sure why badger is being discounted. They are opportunists just as much as foxes and are unlikely to turn down an easy meal in the shape of a trapped lamb (if it was trapped). Badgers also have an immensely powerful bite which shears flesh off bone, very different to a fox.I showed the photos to another naturalist and wildlife guide who visited my uncle last week - his first thought was badger.

I'd agree with Jon - the first pic of the right hand side of the head in particular looks like vehicle damage, the left hand side less so perhaps. However, the nearest road is approximately a mile away from where the lamb was found, though there is a track up to the farm. Again, I can only go off my uncle and aunties impressions and they didn't seem to think it had been in collision with a vehicle.

We thought the lamb had been attacked either by a badger or perhaps a couple of fox cubs working together, but none of us was really satisfied with either theory to be honest. None of us had seen this kind of injury on a live animal before.

Incidentally, I must stress that when my aunty found the lamb it was very much alive, she struggled to catch it. When my uncle shot it, it had jumped up on top of a pile of wool sacks!

Thanks again.

Jonathan

 

[Joern Lehmhus]

What about the scenario that the lamb was knocked down by a vehicle, but not too heavily, and in this state attacked by a medium sized carnivore (dog, fox or badger)?

 

[socksitis]

One or two points to raise here, firstly a farmer has the right to shoot a dog if it is worrying his livestock, worrying being the key word, whether the livestock be on common land or owned/rented land.
Secondly I would be more inclined to badger, I have seen badger attack on lambs, ripping out the hind quarters and the lamb was still alive. Immensly powerful jaws.
Having been a shepherd for too many years.

 

[Gingling]

This may seem a little off the wall but I just have to ask , are there any free ranging pigs in the area of the attack ? Perhaps a large one ? One that got loose?

The patterns are not those of crow an eagle or a ravens.

I do note that a beetle is feeding on the meat in one photo however. Hardly a killer. Large hogs will bit the face right off lamb given chance and lack of social barnyard etiquette.

Check the area again for large clove hoof prints . It looks like a hog attack and I have seen a few. Dogs could have done it but the rips in the hide do not look to match the pattern of any dog I have ever dealt with.

JR.

 

[dafi]

I have seen injurys like this from time to time at the slaughterhouse coming in as casualtys. Looks like the work of a dog to me as well

 

[callump]

I'd have to go with dog too on the balance of evidence. A few years ago the farm I was on lost a few lambs to dogs and one thing the found in common with the attacks was tails being bitten off.

Interesting idea about the Wild boar I know down in Galloway about 8 years ago some wild boar escaped and mauled two full grown sheep but didnt kill them. (these boar were all susequently been shot although it took about 6 years to get the last one).

On the subject of shooting dogs in Scotland they have to be actively worrying or been witnessed worrying the sheep. Simply being there doesn't count. Also if the farmer does lose livestock he is entitled to shoot the dog and sue the owner for damages.

Callum

 

[PhilW]

Two dogs have recently gone on the rampage in N Wales killing or badly wounding several of my secretary's sheep and sheep on two other farms. These were local farm dogs. An Alsation & Old English Sheepdog. They've disappeared and rumour has it the owner shot them when he realised what had happened. None of the farmers are able to claim on their insurance.

 

[Farnboro John]

On the subject of shooting dogs in Scotland they have to be actively worrying or been witnessed worrying the sheep. Simply being there doesn't count. Also if the farmer does lose livestock he is entitled to shoot the dog and sue the owner for damages.

Callum

While I endorse the right of the farmer to stop ongoing damage I suspect that like BOP abuse if the farmer is present and no obvious witnesses he will err on the safe side (for his sheep) and shoot any dog loose on his land whether or not damage is occurring.

John