Which Redpoll Species (1 Viewer)

[Earnest lad]

I hope this post is not contravening forum rules.
I am trying to learn the Redpoll species. From here in the UK, I have been viewing the live Ontario webcam feeder, which has been getting lots of Redpoll visitors. The redpolls seem to arrive in a flock then depart together. I am not sure if all the birds are the same species of redpoll or not.
I am not sure which redpoll species would be regular in that part of the world.
Anyway, I have attached two screen grabs (sorry for the poor quality) and would be grateful for some advice if possible please.
I have looked at the following article to try to ascertain :

Focus On: the redpolls are coming

In the second of his series, Martin Garner takes a look at the bewildering variety of redpolls that will be winging their way south over the coming weeks.

www.birdguides.com

The nearest I can get is Greenland Redpoll, but that seems to be well out of range.
Any suggestions please would be most welcome
Thanks Ian

 

[Deb Burhinus]

These are really terrible video grabs from which to identify races of Redpoll - (which you already know 😉).

I would suggest most of them are Common Redpoll (Acanthis flammea) - The ‘Greater Common Redpoll’ A.f. rostrata according to AOU, a sub-species of A.flammea, is endemic to Greenland as is the nominate Arctic/Hoary Redpoll, A. h. hornemanni with the smaller southern sub-species being A.h.exilipes. So realistically, the most likely will be flammea or exilipes although all 4 occur afaik.

The pale blob at the back of image 2 might be an exilipes, which is less white than the really white Hornemann’s Hoary/Arctic Redpoll sub-sp mentioned above.

 

[Earnest lad]

These are really terrible video grabs from which to identify races of Redpoll - (which you already know 😉).

I would suggest most of them are Common Redpoll (Acanthis flammea) - The ‘Greater Common Redpoll’ A.f. rostrata according to AOU, a sub-species of A.flammea, is endemic to Greenland as is the nominate Arctic/Hoary Redpoll, A. h. hornemanni with the smaller southern sub-species being A.h.exilipes. So realistically, the most likely will be flammea or exilipes although all 4 occur afaik.

The pale blob at the back of image 2 might be an exilipes, which is less white than the really white Hornemann’s Hoary/Arctic Redpoll sub-sp mentioned above.

Thank you that is most helpful. I am going to study this cam more and look at these webcam visitants as it affords a good chance to observe the birds from the armchair. One can select HD mode 1080p and get good resolution. Also one can "wind it back" not just view live. For the bird at the front I am putting it as a tentative "Common Redpoll". I think it would be helpful if someone with local knowledge of that area was able to advise as to which "species" or race are regular in that area. I don't even know which part of Ontario it is in. Ian

 

[Deb Burhinus]

Thank you that is most helpful. I am going to study this cam more and look at these webcam visitants as it affords a good chance to observe the birds from the armchair. One can select HD mode 1080p and get good resolution. Also one can "wind it back" not just view live. For the bird at the front I am putting it as a tentative "Common Redpoll". I think it would be helpful if someone with local knowledge of that area was able to advise as to which "species" or race are regular in that area. I don't even know which part of Ontario it is in. Ian

The species I mentioned above would all occur but Common Redpoll flammea are the most common species in Ontario with the southern Hoary Redpoll excilipes less common and Hornemann’s less common than either. Common Redpolls also occur in huge irruptions when birch seeds/catkins are scarce further north when it’s seen in large numbers at feeders (also bringing rarer Hoary Redpolls with them); or can also be almost absent in years where there is an abundance of food in boreal regions further North (like eg our Waxwing/Crossbill movements or the rarer Bohemian Waxwing turning up with Cedar Waxwing in Canada)

 

[Deb Burhinus]

For the bird at the front I am putting it as a tentative "Common Redpoll". I think it would be helpful if someone with local knowledge of that area was able to advise as to which "species" or race are regular in that area. I don't even know which part of Ontario it is in. Ian

Please feel free to seek further opinions - of course you don’t have to accept my opinion, these can be difficult to ID on photos - but I am 90% sure though 😉

 

[Earnest lad]

Thank you for the additional fascinating information about this interesting complex of bird. I am plumping for common redpoll based on that information together with examination of the birds in the photo's ' Ian

 

[Deb Burhinus]

Thank you for the additional fascinating information about this interesting complex of bird. I am plumping for common redpoll based on that information together with examination of the birds in the photo's ' Ian

Glad to help - Redpoll when they are ‘typical‘ are quite straightforward - it’s just a problem when you get those that are at extreme ends of the spectrum for each species and/or race.🙂

 

[etudiant]

I had thought that these variants had all been lumped again recently. Is this not true?

 

[Deb Burhinus]

I had thought that these variants had all been lumped again recently. Is this not true?

Global lists treat them differently- Following the avibase for Canada, I am treating Hoary and Common Redpoll as separate species here following Clements, despite genetic invariance. HBW + Birdlife lumps them. IOC 11 also treats Hoary and Common as distinct. Not sure if there’s even more recent changes.

 

[igorfest]

Take a look at this interesting web page: http://www.jeaniron.ca/2015/redpollsRP.htm

Ciao, Igor Festari, Italy