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AOS to discard patronyms in English names (1 Viewer)

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Read his book, enjoyed it less than almost any other on birding experiences.* Really don't care what he thinks.

John

*NB: I haven't read Bagnell's, and won't.
It's also far from being the first time that snippet has been posted, even in the last week or so.

As a reposte, I could post the piece by the member who resigned within minutes of reading the statement that this would happen, can't be bothered to look for it though.

Edit: Turns out I could be bothered after all

 
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I'm actually surprised they haven't started on birds with "Oriental" in the name, a quick check shows at least 16 species.

A perfectly innocuous term the world over, but in the USA considered offensive.
It will come to a climax with the word 'Black' being removed.
 
Read his book, enjoyed it less than almost any other on birding experiences.* Really don't care what he thinks.

John

*NB: I haven't read Bagnell's, and won't.
By a light year the best book on birding that I have ever read.

Whatever your views it might be worth reading why he decided he was wrong having initially thought it was a bad decision.
 
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A lot of folk's initial gut reaction is disagreement, because it is such a major change and because it paints all patronyms as equally problematic. I think in the next few weeks you will see at least some folks mellow out over it, like Kaufman did and like I did.
 
A lot of folk's initial gut reaction is disagreement, because it is such a major change and because it paints all patronyms as equally problematic. I think in the next few weeks you will see at least some folks mellow out over it, like Kaufman did and like I did.
Don't forget 'undemocratic', riding rougshod over esteemed Council members such a Dr Remsen who resigned in protest. Like all this woke crap, it's being force fed to us, with no opportunity to vote it down, with those who resist being called racist or homophobic or mysogynist etc.

The woke movement is about as democratic as Putin's Russia, I don't know how you dare call yourselves Liberals let alone 'progressive', this is as regressive as it gets.
 
What a load of arrogance from the Americans who even have difficulty spelling in English anyway! I already dislike loon and jaeger which have been foisted on European lists so heaven knows what nonsensical tripe the woke yanks will derive now
Still divers & skuas where I go birding.
 
It’ll never matter what the books and scholars say; we’ll still call them camp robbers up here.
 
Amazilia Hummingbird is problematic.

Here is the text from the Bird Names 4 Birds website explaining why. Worth reading in full.
Ugh! For goodness sake check your spelling guys:rolleyes:

A very well researched bio but it hasn't made clear the source of the potential for offence.
I mean if 'Amazilia' turned out to be Quechua for 's*@^-kicker' for example the point would be obvious.
Its just some minor fictional character in an old French novel and also it was Spain that sent conquistadors to pillage the Americas not France.
 
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Not sure if this particular paper has been referenced or discussed here. I know a different one from the same author has.

This is relevant for the people here that are claiming that there exists an overwhelming level of support for the changes.


"The inordinate unpopularity of changing all eponymous bird and other organismal names" by Kevin Winker

Abstract:

A proposal by Foley and Rutter (2020) to eliminate all eponymous English bird names was published in the Washington Post, a Washington, D.C. newspaper. Fears (2021) reported in this same newspaper that a racist and colonialist history is perpetuated in some English bird names, especially eponyms, and that a social movement is working to change those names. These articles generated hundreds of online comments. I used sentiment analysis on these comments to quantify public reaction to this proposal and topic. Among the 340 scored comments to Foley and Rutter (2020), negative opinions outnumbered positive ones by 3.36:1. Scoring comments by relative magnitude of their sentiment (-3, -2, -1, 0, 1, 2, 3) yielded an average score of -1.18. These results indicate this proposed action is very unpopular and causes pronounced divisiveness. The 570 scored comments to the Fears (2021) article were also negatively skewed (2.3:1), though less so (average score -0.58). Politicization and the left-right nature of the issue were rampant in the comments on both articles, indicating that the subject was immediately brought into the culture wars. The divisive nature of the topic was also evident within self-identified left-leaning respondents. These results likely underestimate public negativity to this proposal, because the Washington Post is a left-leaning newspaper. Similarly, Guedes et al. (2023) called for eliminating all eponymous organismal names, and a sentiment analysis of comments about that article was even more starkly negative, showing 95% of commenters opposed. More data like these are needed. There is considerable risk that broadly de-commemorating eponymous organismal names will create more negative than positive outcomes (e.g., through asymmetric polarization and the culture wars). We must also ask: Does excluding people who do not share our views achieve our objective of inclusiveness? When is it acceptable to take away someone’s hard-won knowledge by changing key terms in our shared biodiversity linguistic infrastructure? There are more constructive ways to address diversity, equity, and inclusion.

Have not read the whole paper yet, it is in the hopper.
 
Read his book, enjoyed it less than almost any other on birding experiences.* Really don't care what he thinks.

John

*NB: I haven't read Bagnell's, and won't.
To which book are you referring? I have his field guide and Advanced Birding, never read the others
 
In 1957:
  • English was not yet the international lingua franca that it is today;
  • English bird names had not yet been through the international standardization process they have been through today;
  • the changes were not politically tainted, which the current changes clearly are.
May I suggest another possible scenario ? Rather than seeing the traditional names become "curious relicts in old field guides" any time soon, you might well end up with two coexisting, politically tainted, sets of names being in use. Which names you use will then become de facto a political manifesto, and an apolitical discussion about birds in American English will simply become impossible.

I wish you a lot of fun if this happens. :(
Maybe it's time we reverted to French as the international language after all...


Amazilia Hummingbird is problematic.

Here is the text from the Bird Names 4 Birds website explaining why. Worth reading in full.
What that excerpt tells me is that it was written by people who are not familiar with non-Western literature and their idea of "European" is based on North American stereotypes of the latter.
 
Edit: Turns out I could be bothered after all

From the article "We were all willing to re-evaluate names that honored people with an exceptionally objectionable past (based on the standards of their era)".

That last parentheses is incredibly reasonable, and totally opposite to the ideology that caused the AOS decision.
 
A lot of folk's initial gut reaction is disagreement, because it is such a major change and because it paints all patronyms as equally problematic. I think in the next few weeks you will see at least some folks mellow out over it, like Kaufman did and like I did.
Do you think you'll be as sanguine when the proposal is to purge the Latin names? I realize that you've stated that is going to be a much heavier lift than getting the AOS to do what they just did, but the movement seems afoot:

Guedes, P., Alves-Martins, F., Arribas, J.M. et al. Eponyms have no place in 21st-century biological nomenclature. Nat Ecol Evol 7, 1157–1160 (2023).
 
Not sure if this particular paper has been referenced or discussed here. I know a different one from the same author has.

This is relevant for the people here that are claiming that there exists an overwhelming level of support for the changes.


"The inordinate unpopularity of changing all eponymous bird and other organismal names" by Kevin Winker

Abstract:



Have not read the whole paper yet, it is in the hopper.
I'll save you some time: it's a "poll" of a comment thread on one article. It's a garbage methodology by someone who appears to have no awareness of how internet comments work.
 
I'll save you some time: it's a "poll" of a comment thread on one article. It's a garbage methodology by someone who appears to have no awareness of how internet comments work.
Now I'll have to read it, you've piqued my interest.

Related:

This would be the 2nd resignation I know of; the other has already been discussed.


Anyone know of any more?
 
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