Vortex Viper HD 8x42 versus Steiner Military/Marine 10x50 (1 Viewer)

Kavanaughty · Apr 30, 2015

Hi folks, first post here on the forum.

I've been entertaining the idea of buying a new pair of binoculars for a while now and I've narrowed my selection down to the Vortex Viper HD 8x42 and the Steiner Military/Marine 10x50, though I'm having an awful time deciding between the two. My main uses for them would be hunting, observing scenery and watching wildlife. Longevity is of the utmost importance me. Here's a list of qualities I'm looking for:

• Durable (able to withstand bumps and the possible short drop, excellent waterproofing)
• Reliable components (no malfunctions)
• Good in low-light conditions and decent nighttime use
• Dependable customer service and warranty
• Around the $500 to $600 range
• Weight, size and compatibility with glasses aren't critical to me

I haven't had any hands-on experience with either of these models but after reading a plethora of reviews, it seems the Military/Marine has the edge in durability. Not sure about component reliability. The Viper HD has adjustable eyecups (which I have no use for) and a center focus wheel while the Military/Marine uses an autofocus system (a feature which I'd love but again, have no experience with and some reviewers criticize it). The same goes for low-light conditions and nighttime use, though if my memory serves me correctly I remember reading that porro prisms have a slight advantage in this area. Both companies offer exceptional lifetime warranty but it's clear that Vortex has built a better reputation and the Viper has a much larger fanbase.

All this considered, I'm still stumped. Any and all suggestions are appreciated and feel free to recommend different pairs of binos that could suit my needs.

Also, does anybody know why the Military/Marine 10x50 is double the price of the Military/Marine 8x30?

typo · Apr 30, 2015

Welcome to the forum,

Not an easy question to answer as you might imagine. As birdwatchers most here would go for the Vortex for the centre focus but it really depends on the distance you are typically observing, the time of day and your age.

Autofocus is really a misnomer. You cannot play any tricks with the design what will alter the depth of field in the centre of the view. A certain amount of field curvature can improve the perception, particularly over open ground where more of the foreground is in focus but otherwise it's a fixed depth of field.... until your eyes get involved. As we get older we lose the ability to close focus (presbyopia). As a youngster, accommodation might allow the scene to be sharp from 40ft to infinity with the 10x50 IF but that might be 200ft to infinity by the time we are 60. However even those figures change with light levels with the DOF reducing as our pupils dilate. In low light your pupil dilates and increases the effective objective diameter decreasing the apparent depth of field further. Our visual acuity also decreases in low light, but paradoxically this may result in an increase in apparent DOF as we become less discriminating about acceptable focal limits. It may be by the age of 60 a 5mm exit pupil is already more than the pupils dilate but that is very variable.

So we have reduced DOF and reduced acuity in low light. If you are younger you might find that lower power and bigger exit pupil eg. 7X50 is the best compromise in low light, but generally higher magnification works best and this is reflected in the twilight factor which is the square root of the magnification times objective diameter. An 8x42 is 18.3 and a 10x50 22.4. The 10x50 may be more useful in low light even at the expense of DOF and the inconvenience of individual eyepiece focus.

With a little practice it isn't difficult with practice to refocus the eyepieces for close distance quite quickly though obviously it's still much slower than CF.

I've not tried the Steiner Military/Marine 10x50 but the Commander 7x50 is actually very good if rather expensive, so I imagine the optical quality is very good. If your needs are mostly low light and distant then the Steiner may be the answer but there are more affordable 10x56 models that might be better still. If weight, convenience, versatility and primarily daylight use is more important then the Viper might be the better bet.

David

cnick6 · Apr 30, 2015

Kavanaughty, I joined BF last summer and I actually compared these to each other. I ordered the Steiner 10x50 Military Marine and already had the Viper HD 10x42.

The optics are different designs but in the end the image quality was fairly neck and neck with perhaps the Steiner having a slight edge. I wish I could tell you more but it's been too long since I used both of those models.

A couple of key points that I think you'll want to consider:

1. The Steiners are HEAVY. If you're carrying other equipment (especially when hunting) then the last thing you'll want is a 3lb rock around your neck.

2. While the AF was interesting this is only helpful if your target is at a static distance. This might be OK if you're hunting game that is at a fixed distance.

3. The Steiner will win out on ruggedness by a landslide! Those are made to be knocked around and they will easily last a lifetime if even remotely cared for...

4. The Viper HD are not nearly as rugged but are much lighter and far more convenient to carry. I actually dented the left eyecup on my model after a fall from carpet! It was a fluke thing where it landed on the ocular at just the right angle but it still dented slightly the aluminum eyecup. Thankfully it was just cosmetic.

5. The 8x42 model might not be enough for hunting. You may want to consider the 10x or 12x 50mm model which are only 4 oz heavier but might be more useful for hunting.

6. The FOV is a little narrow on the Viper HD models -- even the 8x42 model -- so that is something to consider.

7. You might want to consider the Vanguard Endeavor ED II 10x42 which has a wide FOV (compared to the Viper HD) and better optics. The price is better. Vanguard USA has a lifetime warranty. They're a bit more rugged than the Viper HD too.

8. If you're looking for a more compact design then take a look at the Zeiss Terra ED series. 8x32, 8x42, 10x42. Optics are pretty good but not as good as the Viper HD or ED II.

9. If image quality (IQ) is your key point then you may want to look at the Vortex Razor HD series. The 10x50 would be ideal for hunting while the 8x42 is probably best for a general purpose model. Incredibly lightweight and very rugged. These have incredible image quality -- but you'll pay 2x for that. Well worth it though.

cnick6 · Apr 30, 2015

Kavanaughty said:
Also, does anybody know why the Military/Marine 10x50 is double the price of the Military/Marine 8x30?

My guess would be the amount of glass used in the 10x50 model. The 8x30 only weighs 18oz but the 10x50 model is almost double that. A lot more glass and probably a lot more internal reinforcement needed for that size of objective.

The 8x30 are quite smaller than than the 10x50 model.

jtc · Apr 30, 2015

I have the Viper 8 x 42. The build quality is excellent, so are the optics. It has a bright clear image. Also, you can not beat the warranty, so I would not be worried about using it in rugged conditions.

WJC · Apr 30, 2015

typo said:
Welcome to the forum,

Not an easy question to answer as you might imagine. As birdwatchers most here would go for the Vortex for the centre focus but it really depends on the distance you are typically observing, the time of day and your age.

Autofocus is really a misnomer. You cannot play any tricks with the design what will alter the depth of field in the centre of the view. A certain amount of field curvature can improve the perception, particularly over open ground where more of the foreground is in focus but otherwise it's a fixed depth of field.... until your eyes get involved. As we get older we lose the ability to close focus (presbyopia). As a youngster, accommodation might allow the scene to be sharp from 40ft to infinity with the 10x50 IF but that might be 200ft to infinity by the time we are 60. However even those figures change with light levels with the DOF reducing as our pupils dilate. In low light your pupil dilates and increases the effective objective diameter decreasing the apparent depth of field further. Our visual acuity also decreases in low light, but paradoxically this may result in an increase in apparent DOF as we become less discriminating about acceptable focal limits. It may be by the age of 60 a 5mm exit pupil is already more than the pupils dilate but that is very variable.

So we have reduced DOF and reduced acuity in low light. If you are younger you might find that lower power and bigger exit pupil eg. 7X50 is the best compromise in low light, but generally higher magnification works best and this is reflected in the twilight factor which is the square root of the magnification times objective diameter. An 8x42 is 18.3 and a 10x50 22.4. The 10x50 may be more useful in low light even at the expense of DOF and the inconvenience of individual eyepiece focus.

With a little practice it isn't difficult with practice to refocus the eyepieces for close distance quite quickly though obviously it's still much slower than CF.

I've not tried the Steiner Military/Marine 10x50 but the Commander 7x50 is actually very good if rather expensive, so I imagine the optical quality is very good. If your needs are mostly low light and distant then the Steiner may be the answer but there are more affordable 10x56 models that might be better still. If weight, convenience, versatility and primarily daylight use is more important then the Viper might be the better bet.

David

Typo,

You said: “Autofocus is really a misnomer.” You are Soooo kind.

That claim is the VERY REASON I started freelancing in the first place, and it was the FIRST “misnomer” I set out to correct.

Good advertising need not be accurate, or even meaningful; it has only to be believed.

And, those who slept through 7th — 11th grade Science class followed in droves. The concept dominated the ‘90s and made Aunt Myrtle—and the Hunters who don’t know how to pronounce “Leupold”—weak in the knees. It also made tons of money for the Asians who immediately saw the value of the trickery.

You remember the Asians … there the ones making the bulk of the “German binoculars,” these days.:cat:

Cheers,

Bill

typo · Apr 30, 2015

I know this link has been posted a few times, but it seems relevant.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTK3LaH6W1c

I'll pass on commenting on how accurately it sheds light on the rest of Steiner's range of models.

David

Vortex Viper HD 8x42 versus Steiner Military/Marine 10x50 (1 Viewer)

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