• Welcome to BirdForum, the internet's largest birding community with thousands of members from all over the world. The forums are dedicated to wild birds, birding, binoculars and equipment and all that goes with it.

    Please register for an account to take part in the discussions in the forum, post your pictures in the gallery and more.
ZEISS DTI thermal imaging cameras. For more discoveries at night, and during the day.

10X: Zeiss, Leica or What? (1 Viewer)

Pinewood

Pinewood

New York correspondent
United States
I have retired from a 30+ year career with the New York City School system. :D
I am currently on a provisional pension, until the bean counters decide that I have truly worked that long, then I get a final determination. In the meantime, the retroactive money should be building up.

I have known the occasion when a ten power glass would have been useful. Just this week, a belted kingfisher was just a little too far for the eight power binocular I have been using. However, past experiences with a 10x42 Leica BN and a 10x40 Zeiss ClassiC have been unhappy. Let me point out some of my criteria:

I wear specs as I suffer from both astigmatism and heavy duty myopia, -7.5 dioptres.
I have trouble holding even an 8x50, much over the horizon, but I am going to concede that either I will use this for ojects close to the horizon or on a monopod. Good ergonomics would certainly be a plus.
I want the best, modern optics, and I am willing to pay the price, once a decade.

If it were for general use, I think that I would consider a 10x42, but I may be looking for a "companion," to use with an 8x30, an 8x40 or an 8.5x44. This raises the following questions about a 10x32:
Is it easy to keep the objectives, eyepieces and one's own eyes aligned?
Is the image bright enough for full daylight, even under the leafy cover of woods?
Is it compatible with specs?
Could I carry a 10x32 and an 8x40, without difficulty?
To be sure, I will check the binoculars out in store, at least.

Happy bird watching,
Arthur Pinewood
 
Last edited:
Pinewood said:
I have retired from a 30+ year career with the New York City School system. :D
I am currently on a provisional pension, until the bean counters decide that I have truly worked that long, then I get a final determination. In the meantime, the retroactive money should be building up.

I have known the occasion when a ten power glass would have been useful. Just this week, a belted kingfisher was just a little too far for the eight power binocular I have been using. However, past experience with a 10x42 Leica BN and a 10x40 Zeiss ClassiC have been unhappy. Let me point out some of my criteria:

I wear specs as I suffer from both astigmatism and heavy duty myopia, -7.5 dioptres.
I have trouble holding even an 8x50, much over the horizon, but I am going to concede that either I will use this for ojects close to the horizon or on a monopod. Good ergonomics would certainly be a plus.
I want the best, modern optics, and I am willing to pay the price, once a decade.

If it were for general use, I think that I would consider a 10x42, but I may be looking for a "companion," to use with an 8x30, an 8x40 or an 8.5x44. This raises the following questions about a 10x32:
Is it easy to keep the objectives, eyepieces and one's own eyes aligned?
Is the image bright enough for full daylight, even under the leafy cover of woods?
Is it compatible with specs?
Could I carry a 10x32 and an 8x40, without difficulty?
To be sure, I will check the binoculars out in store, at least.

Happy bird watching,
Arthur Pinewood
Click to expand...

Hi Arthur,
I don"t know if this will help or not but,here goes.
I have a pair of Zeiss 7x42FL"s and I"ve done a lot of experimenting with the exit pupil.
I"ve put both 14mm and 21mm stops over the objectives to reduce glare on the Moon.
I can tell you that a 10x32FL will give you practicaly the same brightness during the bright DAYTIME as my 7x42 FL.
If a 10x glass is required and its mainly for daytime viewing then a 10x32FL would be very hard to beat.Obviously if you are in a heavily shaded wood,then the differnce in brightness willbe more noticeable but,for bright daytime viewing you willbe amazed at how bright the 10x32FL is.
I haven"t had any trouble what so ever with the smaller exit pupil in terms of alignment with my eyes.
If you can Arthur,try before you buy.
Best Wishes,
Steve.
 
Last edited:
Pinewood said:
I have retired from a 30+ year career with the New York City School system. :D
I am currently on a provisional pension, until the bean counters decide that I have truly worked that long, then I get a final determination. In the meantime, the retroactive money should be building up.

I have known the occasion when a ten power glass would have been useful. Just this week, a belted kingfisher was just a little too far for the eight power binocular I have been using. However, past experience with a 10x42 Leica BN and a 10x40 Zeiss ClassiC have been unhappy. Let me point out some of my criteria:

I wear specs as I suffer from both astigmatism and heavy duty myopia, -7.5 dioptres.
I have trouble holding even an 8x50, much over the horizon, but I am going to concede that either I will use this for ojects close to the horizon or on a monopod. Good ergonomics would certainly be a plus.
I want the best, modern optics, and I am willing to pay the price, once a decade.

If it were for general use, I think that I would consider a 10x42, but I may be looking for a "companion," to use with an 8x30, an 8x40 or an 8.5x44. This raises the following questions about a 10x32:
Is it easy to keep the objectives, eyepieces and one's own eyes aligned?
Is the image bright enough for full daylight, even under the leafy cover of woods?
Is it compatible with specs?
Could I carry a 10x32 and an 8x40, without difficulty?
To be sure, I will check the binoculars out in store, at least.

Happy bird watching,
Arthur Pinewood
Click to expand...
We bought my son the top Nikon 10x32s for his 21st birthday, Arthur, and they are stunning but... I recently looked through the 8x32 Zeiss FLs and they had a much wider fov. I presume the same would apply to the 10x32s? They were also beautifully light and compact.
 
Arthur,
A review of my Eagle Optics Catalog reveals that there is very little difference in size and weight between a 10 x 32 bin and it's manufacturer's equivalent 8 x 32. There are usually differences in Eye Relief and FOV, with the 10's ER being shorter and having smaller FOV's. On average they should weigh in the neighborhood of 20 ounces. BTW, I also notice that there aren't an awful lot of "raves" from users of the 10 x 32 format. Eagle dropped their 10 x 32's from their Platinum series while keeping the 8 x32 and the 6 x 32. They may be right up your alley though, if you want to carry 2 bins.

Bob
 
Thank Steve, Steve and Bob,

A little research shows that the Leica Ultra and Bn have 13.5 mm ER, while the Swarov 10x32 EL has even less. The FL 10x32 is the clear winner in ER, with 16mm. Even given variations in measuring methods, I would guess that the Zeiss would be more useful to me.
As for ergonomics, the plan would be to use the eight or seven power, then use the ten power when necessary and probably for short periods. Given my steadiness challenge, careful examination of the binocular is still a necessity

Incidentally, I still have a 12x50, on a monopod, for excursions to the shore.

Happy bird watching,
Arthur Pinewood :scribe:
 
Big decisions, 10x and what size. I personally went the 10x42 way, but I was not spending as much as you at my level of bins. I have not tested them yet, still using the Sporters. Once Warbler season is over, I will go with the 10x42 alone the rest of the year. For warblers I use 8x40 porros, wide field.
 
Last edited:
Pinewood said:
Thank Steve, Steve and Bob,

A little research shows that the Leica Ultra and Bn have 13.5 mm ER, while the Swarov 10x32 EL has even less. The FL 10x32 is the clear winner in ER, with 16mm. Even given variations in measuring methods, I would guess that the Zeiss would be more useful to me.
As for ergonomics, the plan would be to use the eight or seven power, then use the ten power when necessary and probably for short periods. Given my steadiness challenge, careful examination of the binocular is still a necessity

Incidentally, I still have a 12x50, on a monopod, for excursions to the shore.

Happy bird watching,
Arthur Pinewood :scribe:
Click to expand...

Arthur,

the 10x32 Zeiss Fl´s eye relief is quite the same as with the 8x32 FL, even in reality ;)

In my opinion daytime usebility and finding the right eye position with a 10x32 is not such a problem. The real challenge for using any 10x32 is to hold it steady. The low weight advantage is getting an disadvantage when it comes to steady views. It is possible that one gets used to it. But maybe not. Of course this depends on personal fitness, age or what somebody has done before using the bino. After a long and strenous walk for example the ability to avoid shaking of one´s hands usually decreases. So you can´t realy find out this only by trying 10x32s relaxed in a shop IMHO. I´m also afraid that carrying two binoculars could be quite bothersome in the long run and you´ll may quickly find yourself leave one bino at home. An 8+12x42 Leica Duovid sounds like someting you are looking for. But I´m not sure if its eye relief is enough for you. This could also be the problem with a 10x30 Canon IS which would help to avoid the shaking.
The depth of field of a 10x binocular could also a bit too less for older people.

Steve
 
Than you to another Steve,

As my usual modus operandi is to take long walks in Central Park, exertion should not be a problem.
I think that the Duovids are lacking in FOV as well as eye relief. They are not light and I could not possible use the 12 power function without a monpod. You have written about the main fault of the Canon 10x30 IS: lack of eye relief. I have difficulty with feeding an IS glass with a constant stream of batteries. Did I not read that cold weather renders the IS feature almost useless?
Ultimately, I may just forego any ten power, but I wish to explore the possibilities.

Happy bird watching,
Arthur
 
Last edited:
Arthur,

I'm not trying to sway you toward the Canon 10x30 IS, but: It works very well with rechargeable NiMH batteries, so you don't need a constant stream of batteries, just four (two in the binocular, two fully-charged spares in you pocket). Secondly, at least the 15x50 which I have had for many years works just as well in cold as in warm weather. I have used it in -20 centigrade weather and the stabilizer still works fine.

The eye-relief issue is valid, and you would need to try it to see if it is enough for you or not.

IS might be good for you, though.

Kimmo
 
Kimmo,

Thank you for your kind advice.

Fortunately, I should have no problem finding any of these binoculars in a shop within five kilometers of home.

Happy bird watching,
Arthur Pinewood
 
Pinewood said:
Kimmo,

Thank you for your kind advice.

Fortunately, I should have no problem finding any of these binoculars in a shop within five kilometers of home.

Happy bird watching,
Arthur Pinewood
Click to expand...

Arthur,

it could be helpful to walk the five kilometers first before you start to try the 10x32 binoculars...

Steve
 
What about 9x? There should be a few models out there. Save you the trouble of lugging two bins every single time. You might get by with one pair.

8,5x is not quite the same. You need 9x or 10x for what you describe.
 
Last edited:
Steve,

I may walk, even though a round trip costs the same as a one way trip, if I do not spend much time examining the optics.
Tero, I wrote that I want cutting edge, modern optics, which does not seem to apply to most nine power binoculars.

Happy bird watching,
Arthur Pinewood
 
Well, you are right, there are lots of superb models at 10x. I forget, do you have any 10x models already? There are some 10x compacts to play with, but as they are light, they are hard to practice with, they shake easily. I'm not sure if I would go for 8x or 10x if I were to spend more than 500. But for under 500, I have no problem going 10x. I can see moving more towards 8x as I get to be more experienced with birds.

As for 9x, came across this odd one
http://www.eagleoptics.com/index.asp?dept=1&type=19&purch=1&pid=4456

why not just make them 9x42, they would sell a few.

There are some Steiner and Oberwerk porros at 9x, probably bulky.

So there are not any I liked either. Maybe one Bushnell.
 
Last edited:
Wrong forum, not 10x and not Zeiss (I believe this could be called off topic) but for a little extra power for IDs the tiny Nikon ED50 with 16x eyepiece and a Cullman shoulder pod would be a handy outfit; and one I recall Andrew Whitehouse reckoned he can fit into a coat pocket.
 
Arthur,

Here is a suggestion that has not yet been made: the Leupold Golden Ring 10x32mm binocular. It offers a field of view of 356 feet at 1,000 yards (119 meters at 1,000 meters), a close focus distance of less than five feet (less than 1.5 meters), and has 14.7 millimeters of eye relief (long enough for me to use with my eyeglasses). It also offers an interpupillary distance lock.

Good birding,
John from Scappoose
 
As someone in your position not more than a week or two ago, I strongly agree with the suggestions to go shopping and try all of these. Focus on both light and dark areas, and also focus on depth-of-field, e.g. focus on something and see how blurry the things before/behind it become, to decide how much depth of field you prefer. Look at sharpness toward the edges of view, and obviously at comfort while viewing.

I made the time to try them out (a lot more than 5km drive!) but finally had a chance, and I was quite surprised... it's a matter of tastes so I'm not sure online opinions can help you completely at this kind of price point. For me, I was dead-set on the Zeiss FL T 8x32 but ended up walking out with a Leica Ultra 8x42 with a $550 Nikon 8x32 as a very close second place. Your eyes can and probably will tell you a different story.
 
Thanks John, Tero, Swiego and Norm,

I have been having an interesting side conversation with a forum member about ED and FL glasses. His opinion is that such glass is the cutting edge of modern optics. On paper, the advantage is reduced chromatic aberration but in practice he and others report the ability to render color in more gradations.

There are a couple of shops in my town, which allow one to walk out for a view. One let me do this unaccompanied. I never drive as I let the chauffeur, a city bus driver, take care of the road. Lack of an automobile is one reason I can set my sights on a top of the line binocular.

Carrying two binoculars might be a little much but a binocular and a small 'scope with shoulder mount is too much for me. My limit has been a 8x30 binocular and my 12x50 on a Monopod with the binocular hanging from its strap and the monopod at shoulder arms.

This will take a while to sort out, so happy bird watching,
Arthur Pinewood
 
Arthur,

here comes one more suggestion. Zeiss is offering a 3x booster that is quite easy atouchable to their binoculars. With for example the 8x32 you get a magnification of 24x. This 3x12 Zeiss Mono has ample of eye relief (~ real 16 mm) and is also usable as a nice little monocular and magnifier glass by its own. It is as small as a thumb and very lightweight. It is really a nice little piece of kit for 1001 opportunities. Of course a magnification of 24x is hard to handhold. But with tripod adapter, monopod or shoulderpod surely worth a try.

Greetings also to the birds in Central Park

Steve
 
Hi Arthur, I'm no optics expert but I sympathise with your pension plight, I'm a teacher in the Irish state system and I'm amazed to learn that in NYC they also have difficulty counting years of service. (I tried telling them here that it's quite simple, you look at the current date, you subtract my start date, and that tells you how long I've been here. But it doesn't work). I used a backpay windfall last year to buy a pair of Swarovski EL 10x42, and I love them. I'm no technical expert, but I love the image, I sometimes use them with glasses, and although they weigh about 850 grams, I find them easy to hold for reasonably long periods because of the design (and I have quite small hands). I compared them in the shop to the Leica Ultravid equivalent and chose the Swaros. Also at least here in Dublin, the Swaros are cheaper than equivalent Zeiss or Leicas. Best of Luck with your bins choice and with your retirement.
 
Warning! This thread is more than 18 years ago old.
It's likely that no further discussion is required, in which case we recommend starting a new thread. If however you feel your response is required you can still do so.

Similar threads

G
In praise of the Zeiss SFL 10x40
Replies
2
Views
998
gweller
G
Saxatilis
Zeiss Victory 7x42 FL internal check after 15 years of use?
Replies
15
Views
1K
Rg548
R
M
Change to Zeiss SFL 10x40 or stick with my Leicas
Replies
4
Views
959
tenex
tenex
J
My First Experience Purchasing Birding Binoculars. Part 2 first anniversary
Replies
2
Views
655
Scott98
S
M
Zeiss SFL 8x40 Eyecup Stray light issue!
Replies
16
Views
1K
Mac198
M

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 2 (members: 0, guests: 2)
Back
Top