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ZEISS DTI thermal imaging cameras. For more discoveries at night, and during the day.

Victory 12x56 and 15x56 (1 Viewer)

Too bad they seems to avoid the 50mm family :-C
I would love a 8x50 with a wide FOV (7.5° or more), something like the 8x56 FL but 250g lighter ...
 
About time! This new blood suggest the FL line is far from finished. Kind of surprising, since Zeiss should be the next of the big three with a new line.
 
Well, maybe they should be, if you look at the product cycle and age of the FL line. But at the moment, no other manufacturer got a better bin then the FL series (imo ofc), so maybe no need yet to further improve it. And I don´t really know how it could be improved. Naturally, for some, the Swarovision might be "better", but not for me since I am sensitive to the rolling ball. Do you agree? ;)

ronh said:
About time! This new blood suggest the FL line is far from finished. Kind of surprising, since Zeiss should be the next of the big three with a new line.
Click to expand...
 
I like FLs too but one area they could improve is edge of field sharpness (edge astigmatism) i.e. I could see a field flattener in their future, for example, as the obvious change.

And although it's easy to say that that would be a significant redesign of the optics to make it all work together (and yield the parameters they want like big FOVs).

The 7x still has the biggest FOV, the 8x is up there but not huge and the 10x is now bested by EDG (though the Leica and Swaro are similar).

The other question for the 42mm might be hersey for Zeiss fans: do they keep using Abbe-Koenig prisms which make the bins longer even though they can now make dielectric mirror SP prisms (like they use in the 32mm bins) that are of almost equally high transmission (the AK will always be just a bit brighter than SP but not so much that it makes a difference). That would be a major change for Zeiss but it might bring Leica sized bins.

But given their upgrade cycle I suspect perhaps not for a couple more years?

Perhaps the current bins are good enough? Shock! Horror! ;)
 
dalat said:
Interesting stuff: Victory 12x56 and 15x56 listeted by a German online dealer. No price and date of availability known yet...
http://www.orniwelt.de/Fernglaeser/Zeiss/Victory-FL
Click to expand...

Okay, I zeem to be mizzing za newz about za neu seiss. Could you please point to exactly where on the page it says they are making two neu models?? Danke!

Here's the Babelfish Broken English translation:
http://babelfish.yahoo.com/translate_url?doit=done&tt=url&intl=1&fr=bf-home&trurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.orniwelt.de%2FFernglaeser%2FZeiss%2FVictory-FL&lp=de_en&btnTrUrl=Translate
 
Kevin,
That's a good idea, abandoning the AK prisms, I wonder what young whippersnapper will suggest that to the "old man" in the meeting room with the fine old wooden table, and whether his ass will be grass after that.

I really think Z is up against it with with these long john thingys. Like you say, back before dielectric coatings, in the days of ClassiC Dialyt vs Leica Trinovid, they gave a great brightness advantage, but no longer. And although a blurry off-center is almost a trademark, I doubt they could do much better even if they tried, with the AK's meager light-folding capability, unless the bodies reverted to ClassiC length. I don't know how much to make of this, but the Schmidt-Pechan Swaro EL and the Abbe-Koening Zeiss are the same length, but who has the fabulously sharp to the edge view, and who has the slower optical system? Leica, although taking full advantage of the SP's compactness, is in between in edge sharpness.

The next issue with the AKs is for optics freaks only. How many people are there like me who light up at the word Abbe, or can even name the designer of the prism in their binocular? But Abbe was a giant, the first to actually "calculate" complex optics like a binocular and get it right, rather than try and err. The first to whittle a tiny perfect crystal of natural Calcium Fluorite into the first apochromatic microscope objective, and design compensating eyepieces, this in a time when bacteriology was like Homeland Security is now. The man is a god. May his name live forever. I think of him every time I wish my Zeiss FL was as compact, and had as nice a field correction as my old Leica Trinovid BA!
Ron
 
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ronh said:
That's a good idea, abandoning the AK prisms, I wonder what young whippersnapper will suggest that to the "old man" in the meeting room with the fine old wooden table, and whether his ass will be grass after that.
Click to expand...

Precisely. Its the problem of tradition. Though Zeiss traditionally made porros. Until they stopped. I suspect if they do take this route they might keep the 7x42 on as "Classic 2" or something. But it will take some balls for that marketing manager to suggest it. One also wonders what Zeiss users would think too. If it's got an SP prism in it why not get a Leica or a Swaro (the latter might come down to pricing).

The light path is more folded in an SP than an AK so the SP gets a higher f/number for a given barrel length. And that helps a bit too.

We've already seem (the original Victory) when Zeiss tried to shorten the bin but kep the AK prisms and that didn't work out so well. But since then they seem to have evolve dthe product (same with the newest Diascopes). So I think more evolution rather than revolution in the next FL bin.
 
If Z does release these new 56 devices, that'll create a serious problem for me, one who has positively sworn off new optics purchases.....these things, in concert with those jerks at Kowa with their new 77 & 88 scopes.....ya really wanna have the self-discipline and resoluteness to just smile and pass on "the latest best", but....

Can anyone here at the meeting stand up & say, "My name is (your name here), and I'm a binoholic, and I've been purchase-free for (# of weeks or months)...." and show me that others, tho' strongly tempted, can perservere and not cave in?
 
spyglass said:
If Z does release these new 56 devices, that'll create a serious problem for me, one who has positively sworn off new optics purchases.....these things, in concert with those jerks at Kowa with their new 77 & 88 scopes.....ya really wanna have the self-discipline and resoluteness to just smile and pass on "the latest best", but....

Can anyone here at the meeting stand up & say, "My name is (your name here), and I'm a binoholic, and I've been purchase-free for (# of weeks or months)...." and show me that others, tho' strongly tempted, can perservere and not cave in?
Click to expand...

My name is Brock, and I've been purchase free since June 27, 2006 @ 5:17 PM.

Next June, if I stay on the wagon (or is it off the wagon? I used to know, but Seinfeld confused me), I will receive my 5 year pin from Binoholics Anonymous.

I did a trade last year, but I don't think that counts.

Being a porromaniac, I was never after the "latest and greatest" since in CF porros, there are latest but no greatest.

Rather I was a collector of classic porros, mostly from Japan. Bidding wars were my downfall.

Oh mother tell your children
Not to do what I have done
Spent all my money on fine porros
From the Land of the Rising Sun
 
brocknroller said:
Okay, I zeem to be mizzing za newz about za neu seiss. Could you please point to exactly where on the page it says they are making two neu models?? Danke!
Click to expand...

Right, the details on the new bins have been removed from the list. I suppose the announcement was a bit premature and they were asked to delete the info...
 
spyglass said:
Can anyone here at the meeting stand up & say, "My name is (your name here), and I'm a binoholic, and I've been purchase-free for (# of weeks or months)...." and show me that others, tho' strongly tempted, can perservere and not cave in?
Click to expand...



my name is edj,
and I'm a binoholic,
and I've been pruchase-free for
about a month now


edj
 
Whew! Thx.....now serially, Z isn't really gonna come with 2 new 56's....it was all a dream....right? I mean if they had 2nd thoughts and deleted.....y' know.

Brock, ya can't spend yr $ any better than on Edo porros.....Audubons, SE's, E's, older Customs, Fujis, ProStars, yea even older Ultimas & Ultralites.....

And Ed....I guess a month is a start, but were lookin' for, like, 4-6 mo.....it ain't easy.

And, no, trades don't count....as long as the swap is even-steve.....I think (that may need clarification from maybe Kevin or FrankD or Bob or either Ron....or even EdZ or Henry).


R
 
spyglass said:
Whew! Thx.....now serially, Z isn't really gonna come with 2 new 56's....it was all a dream....right? I mean if they had 2nd thoughts and deleted.....y' know.
Click to expand...

Just to clarify: the information on the new 12x and 15x56 Victory was posted by an online shop, not by Zeiss itself. I believe to remember that rumours about the new Swarovision came up in the same way, being published prematurely by a shop and then the information being removed again shortly afterwards... Probably some sellers that did not carefully follow the policy of the manufactures regarding release of the news...
 
If a 12x56 came buy or a 15x56 I'd have to get out one of those. The last thing I got was a Victory 8x20 which is just incredible. That add my just be old. They used to have a 12x56 Victory at first.
 
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If you talk to someone at Adorama they'll tell you they have the Zeiss Vicotory 12x56 in stock and to come on down and try them out. Then when you get there they tell you they can still get them and they'll be coming in some time soon and to just check back.
 
ronh said:
...
The next issue with the AKs is for optics freaks only. How many people are there like me who light up at the word Abbe, or can even name the designer of the prism in their binocular? But Abbe was a giant, the first to actually "calculate" complex optics like a binocular and get it right, rather than try and err. The first to whittle a tiny perfect crystal of natural Calcium Fluorite into the first apochromatic microscope objective, and design compensating eyepieces, this in a time when bacteriology was like Homeland Security is now. The man is a god. May his name live forever. I think of him every time I wish my Zeiss FL was as compact, and had as nice a field correction as my old Leica Trinovid BA!
Ron
Click to expand...

Firstly, I just came across this paragraph today and it MADE MY DAY! Bravo Ron! Well, said! Now, speaking of Zeiss binos I have no problem with long binoculars. What's wrong with that?? I prefere long ClassiC-style tubes to chubby Stiener-style ones ;)


Secondly, if any body here craves for a Zeiss 15x60, you can have mine:

http://www.cloudynights.com/classifieds/showproduct.php?product=28907&sort=&cat=13&page=1

:frog:

Thirdly, I have a question about exit-pupil that I ask here: How much can one move his eyes to the side and still see full-field of view in a binocular or a spotting scope? Could we calculate that based on the exit pupil width and human eye pupil width? (i.e. as longs these two pupils keep a suffiecient overlap, the eye sees full field of view?

Example: 10X50 binculars have a 5mm pupil, human eye pupil during daylight about 2.5mm ---> max possible eye movement before going fully off the exit pupil is about 3mm?

Based on this theory the amount of possible eye misplacement will change during day and twilight as the eye pupil changes its diameter! Any comments??
 
Omid,
Yeah, non-thing reasons for liking things, huh? But watch out, I will get silly.

Regarding your thoughts on the interaction between eye and exit pupil. My 7x50 is extremely easy to use in daylight. But at night, my pupils open to around 6.5mm. Then, the view is extremely sensitive to eye position. What happens is not exactly that I can't see the entire field of view, rather, when keeping my gaze fixed near the center of the field, slightest motion causes the field to darken noticebly, because one edge of my eye pupils has moved outside the beam of the exit pupil.

I try to bear in mind that while it may be correct to say for example, "the exit pupil is x.x mm in diameter", that really there are many such exit pupils, each corresponding to a different direction of looking into the field of view. All these exit pupils cover a large area behind the eyepiece. For any given eyepiece position, eye roll angle, and exit pupil diameter, there will be a unique beam cutoff or vignetting. And even if the full beam off axis is received by the eye, there will be internal vignetting in most binoculars, which reduce the off axis exit pupils to a non circular shape, resulting in darkening of the field edge even under relatively bright viewing conditions. So for off axis viewing the effect is complicated. That's why I described only to the case of centerfield viewing, just to keep it simple.

Thanks for releasing this exquisite Zeiss 15x60 for sale, hopefully into the hands of a hard user, rather than keeping it out of circulation as your beautiful but unused collectible.
Ron
 
Plus when you rotate your eye you aren't rotating the entrance pupil around an axis through the center of it but an axis 12mm or so behind the pupil.

So the pupil tilts as well as moves off to the side of the optical axis (hence blackout on the opposite side to the movement when you are just at the ER distance or a bit closer .. look to the left and get the blackout kidney bean on the right).

I think this contributes to the SEs problems where the exit pupil is said to be curved father away (more ER) at the edges. Not a good combination. I think part of the design trick here is to make the exit pupil curve a little so the edges have short ER by about the same amount as the eye moves.

See optical designers have it easy ;)
 
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