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ZEISS DTI thermal imaging cameras. For more discoveries at night, and during the day.

Comparison of Leopold/Leica/Zeiss? (1 Viewer)

[email protected] said:
I am in a few months I am going to Costa Rica to see A Scarlet Toucan. I just don't like it when say this binocular is better than that one with nothing to support the argument. Show me some facts and maybe I will check an EDG out.

Dennis
Click to expand...

Na, stay with what you you have Dennis, you know what you like! Have fun with your Zen Rays in Costa Rica:-O
 
jgraider said:
Hey CLRobles, I've got an idea...take your smartass comments somewhere else.
Click to expand...
Whoa! You need to take a breath and stop kicking your dog bud! If you get so riled up on a forum I suggest for blood pressure reasons don't read them!
Me finding irony in someone who would question Nikon's top of the line sport optic and Nikon's top Porro durability but then be willing to go half way around the world with a clearly inferior bin (ZR)on a expensive trip makes me laugh! If you don't like that take guess what, too bad! Its my take!:king:
If I offended anyone else sorry but you have to see irony here don't you?
 
CLRobles said:
...question Nikon's top of the line sport optic and Nikon's top Porro durability but then be willing to go half way around the world with a clearly inferior bin on a expensive trip makes me laugh
Click to expand...
...

Does not make me laugh, actually.
I find taking a totally weather sealed pair to a tropical location logical.
I truly appreciate my 8x SE's, but i do baby them. Nikon is very upfront about their build limitations. I have been a Nikon customer (primarily cameras) for decades. When they say a product is not waterproof or dust proof, I believe them.
On a trip to a new, and wet place, sacrificing absolute view quality for peace of mind makes sense to me. Besides, didn't he also say he was taking a pair of Zeisses along too? ;)
 
CLRobles said:
...but then be willing to go half way around the world with a clearly inferior bin (ZR)on a expensive trip makes me laugh!
Click to expand...

Just how is it you think you know this (ZEN ED) is an inferior binocular? You have mentioned several times you are simply trying to educate us all based on your two decades of experience. OK fine, that is pretty well what we all do, talk, about our experiences and ask questions of others.

Apparently one thing you have not gained from your two decades of experience is that to really evaluate an optic or to have much of a valid opinion on it, the first thing you actually need to do is to really try the optic. You certainly do not have to like it, but to maintain some integrity you do need to try it, particularly if your decision is to be voluminously negative in your opinion. Hey, to modify the old Alka-Seltzer commercial "Try it, You "might" like it". Even if you don't like it you can have some basis for dislike other than "it ain't in my alpha vision, and besides it's cheap, and it comes from China to boot".

Not everybody who has posted about the ZEN liked them. Hey that is fine. I don't know of one binocular that everybody likes. That's why there are lots of them. But at least everyone with your quite OBVIOUS exception based their opinion on use. Therefore, I can place a certain amount of credence in what I read from them. You are a "whole 'nother ballgame"

Dennis has actually tried a lot of different binoculars and has been in the past quite emphatic about various ones from time to time. But he based his posts on his experience gained from his time with each of the different models. So he chooses, based on actually trying it, to take a ZEN to Costa Rica with him. That makes you laugh? Dude, you make me laugh. I'm with JG Raider, take your circus elsewhere.

And I like my dog and have never kicked him either. I'd have no issue with you either if you were not extensively opining on something that is beneath your dignity to try.
 
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I totally agree.


Steve C said:
Just how is it you think you know this (ZEN ED) is an inferior binocular? You have mentioned several times you are simply trying to educate us all based on your two decades of experience. OK fine, that is pretty well what we all do, talk, about our experiences and ask questions of others.

Apparently one thing you have not gained from your two decades of experience is that to really evaluate an optic or to have much of a valid opinion on it, the first thing you actually need to do is to really try the optic. You certainly do not have to like it, but to maintain some integrity you do need to try it, particularly if your decision is to be voluminously negative in your opinion. Hey, to modify the old Alka-Seltzer commercial "Try it, You "might" like it". Even if you don't like it you can have some basis for dislike other than "it ain't in my alpha vision, and besides it's cheap, and it comes from China to boot".

Not everybody who has posted about the ZEN liked them. Hey that is fine. I don't know of one binocular that everybody likes. That's why there are lots of them. But at least everyone with your quite OBVIOUS exception based their opinion on use. Therefore, I can place a certain amount of credence in what I read from them. You are a "whole 'nother ballgame"

Dennis has actually tried a lot of different binoculars and has been in the past quite emphatic about various ones from time to time. But he based his posts on his experience gained from his time with each of the different models. So he chooses, based on actually trying it, to take a ZEN to Costa Rica with him. That makes you laugh? Dude, you make me laugh. I'm with JG Raider, take your circus elsewhere.

And I like my dog and have never kicked him either. I'd have no issue with you either if you were not extensively opining on something that is beneath your dignity to try.
Click to expand...
 
jaymoynihan said:
...

Does not make me laugh, actually.
I find taking a totally weather sealed pair to a tropical location logical.
I truly appreciate my 8x SE's, but i do baby them. Nikon is very upfront about their build limitations. I have been a Nikon customer (primarily cameras) for decades. When they say a product is not waterproof or dust proof, I believe them.
On a trip to a new, and wet place, sacrificing absolute view quality for peace of mind makes sense to me. Besides, didn't he also say he was taking a pair of Zeisses along too? ;)
Click to expand...

That was my take on it as well. From reading many-many post where Dennis declares the SE is the finest optic bar none, I know how much he appreciates it. It seems to me that bringing along a waterproof Zen, which also gets rave reviews, as a back up to a Zeiss FL makes sense in a rain forest.

I also own two SEs and, the 8x32 is my favorite optic of all time, but if it's raining hard I carry either my Ultravid or my 6x30 Yosemite. Some of the reviews here make it sound like anything but their favorite bin is not worth looking through, to me the top bins are really too close to call and I'd be happy with any of them.
John
 
CLR,

After a bit of thought, I withdraw and apologize for my "take your circus elsewhere" comment. While I stand by the rest of the post, that was a bit over the top. I happen to believe in the right of free speech.
 
CLRobles said:
Whoa! You need to take a breath and stop kicking your dog bud! If you get so riled up on a forum I suggest for blood pressure reasons don't read them!
Me finding irony in someone who would question Nikon's top of the line sport optic and Nikon's top Porro durability but then be willing to go half way around the world with a clearly inferior bin (ZR)on a expensive trip makes me laugh! If you don't like that take guess what, too bad! Its my take!:king:
If I offended anyone else sorry but you have to see irony here don't you?
Click to expand...

I don't really think the Zeiss FL or a Zen Ray ED are that inferior to the SE. I mean it could rain in the rain forests. I think I will see the birds just fine. It's not really half way around the world only about 2500 miles from Denver which is 5 hours by air and I'm in a birders paradise. Besides about six species of Toucans there are also some Scarlett Macaws down their which to some are considered the most beautiful birds in the world. My wife has some friends who are retired down there and we are going to look into some houses and possibly doing the same thing. It is amazing how inexpensive houses and living expenses are in Costa Rica. Weather is pretty nice too averages 72 degrees farenheit. No snow! Like Denver,CO. I am going to check out the infrastructure and see if I could actually retire there. Here is A Scarlett Macaw so if you are stuck in the snow somewhere you can look at him and dream! Here is a link to a house we were looking at:http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320414823175&ssPageName=ADME:X:RTQ:US:1123

Dennis
 

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I bid adieu to BF Binocular forums...

Steve C said:
Just how is it you think you know this (ZEN ED) is an inferior binocular?

Even if you don't like it you can have some basis for dislike other than "it ain't in my alpha vision, and besides it's cheap, and it comes from China to boot".

You are a "whole 'nother ballgame"

Dude, you make me laugh. I'm with JG Raider, take your circus elsewhere.

if you were not extensively opining on something that is beneath your dignity to try.
Click to expand...

I followed BF off and on for several years before becoming a member. The one thing I always remembered in the past was the very cool information I learned about the storied optic firms and the excitement there was about the cutting edge technology coming out of them. Also there was always some post about some really cool vintage bin! Or a question, like I asked not to long ago about a 20yr old Zeiss, and the optic experts here came out with extensive history on the subject including serial numbers and time lines! That's pretty neat stuff and something that drew, at least me, to BF. Sure, there was always expert advice to the beginner on a entry level bin to capture the excitement that our hobby has...
Sadly, this is something that I have not seen much of lately!
I read the posts and do enjoy the amazing tech knowledge of some but it is coming far less than before! Maybe its just me? Or maybe its just been a slow summer? Maybe it's the economy that has everyone in a bargain shoppers mode? I don't know but whatever it is... it just does not feel good to me anymore!
This whole summer I have read nothing but a driven campaign for ZR!
First let me say this about ZR. ZR is NOT an optics firm! So I do not feel as if I need to try them, to criticize them! And enough posts HAVE been written that I do feel comfortable in saying they ARE NOT of the quality of the big four! Let me say this again.... ZR is not a optics firm or even a optics house! They are a importer of a unnamed Chinese bin manufacturer!
Secondly, I only have one issue with Chinese made bins... They DO NOT drive technology in our beloved hobby! They copy technology and offer it for a lower price point! This in the long run hurts the industry! Now, I would have no problem with these Chinese optic houses or ZR (if they actually owned a optics house in China, which they do not) if they did these things...
1) Put their name on the bin
2) Had their own marketing and sales department
3) Had their own warranty department
4) Had their own repair facilities
These are things I don't see in a Chinese bin! I fear I never will! They are wrapped in a importers name and left to the importer to market, warranty and service! This is something that I will never feel comfortable with regardless of the price.... They don't do these things because then they would have compete head to head with the others and they would have to drive technology!
My father taught me something at a young age and I relearned that lesson the hard way several times in my adult life.... You get what you pay for!
So, when I start reading (and have to argue with) a post that is saying "Just how is it you think you know this (ZEN ED) is an inferior binocular?" When I was comparing it to a Nikon SE.... Well, I just don't have anything left to say! Sad really, that this is where BF has come, where a SE is brought to that level and the ZR army blindly follows in with the assault!

And the posts have become increasingly personal! Any descent and the jabs start... Maybe I have contributed to this? I feel I have. So I have decided that it's time to go.... So I'm taking my circus and my dignity and my laptop and going home|:D|
Now I'll still remain a member and read the forums on the digiscoping section.... Where the excitement still exists and the bickering is not to be seen! But I just don't see myself posting here on the bin forums again! So I want to say thank you too the ones that I have enjoyed and learned from and good luck too the rest of you ;)

Ohhh, and one last thing! Your SE's are not made of ice people! They don't melt in the rain or humidity! I really don't care if you believe me or not but my 10x's have seen weeks in the rain and still look and perform like new! They are beautiful bins with beautiful views! And they have a warranty to boot! So go out ye all! Into the fields and forests and shores and enjoy! Enjoy what you have! And don't compromise this with something inferior! You have the best now enjoy it at every possible moment!
 
You can´t even drop lens cleaning solution on the eyepiece of the SE without it getting soaked, it is not waterproof, it can´t be trusted for anything else then sunday birding in the sunshine.
 
CLRobles said:
I followed BF off and on for several years before becoming a member. The one thing I always remembered in the past was the very cool information I learned about the storied optic firms and the excitement there was about the cutting edge technology coming out of them. Also there was always some post about some really cool vintage bin! Or a question, like I asked not to long ago about a 20yr old Zeiss, and the optic experts here came out with extensive history on the subject including serial numbers and time lines! That's pretty neat stuff and something that drew, at least me, to BF. Sure, there was always expert advice to the beginner on a entry level bin to capture the excitement that our hobby has...
Sadly, this is something that I have not seen much of lately!
I read the posts and do enjoy the amazing tech knowledge of some but it is coming far less than before! Maybe its just me? Or maybe its just been a slow summer? Maybe it's the economy that has everyone in a bargain shoppers mode? I don't know but whatever it is... it just does not feel good to me anymore!
This whole summer I have read nothing but a driven campaign for ZR!
First let me say this about ZR. ZR is NOT an optics firm! So I do not feel as if I need to try them, to criticize them! And enough posts HAVE been written that I do feel comfortable in saying they ARE NOT of the quality of the big four! Let me say this again.... ZR is not a optics firm or even a optics house! They are a importer of a unnamed Chinese bin manufacturer!
Secondly, I only have one issue with Chinese made bins... They DO NOT drive technology in our beloved hobby! They copy technology and offer it for a lower price point! This in the long run hurts the industry! Now, I would have no problem with these Chinese optic houses or ZR (if they actually owned a optics house in China, which they do not) if they did these things...
1) Put their name on the bin
2) Had their own marketing and sales department
3) Had their own warranty department
4) Had their own repair facilities
These are things I don't see in a Chinese bin! I fear I never will! They are wrapped in a importers name and left to the importer to market, warranty and service! This is something that I will never feel comfortable with regardless of the price.... They don't do these things because then they would have compete head to head with the others and they would have to drive technology!
My father taught me something at a young age and I relearned that lesson the hard way several times in my adult life.... You get what you pay for!
So, when I start reading (and have to argue with) a post that is saying "Just how is it you think you know this (ZEN ED) is an inferior binocular?" When I was comparing it to a Nikon SE.... Well, I just don't have anything left to say! Sad really, that this is where BF has come, where a SE is brought to that level and the ZR army blindly follows in with the assault!

And the posts have become increasingly personal! Any descent and the jabs start... Maybe I have contributed to this? I feel I have. So I have decided that it's time to go.... So I'm taking my circus and my dignity and my laptop and going home|:D|
Now I'll still remain a member and read the forums on the digiscoping section.... Where the excitement still exists and the bickering is not to be seen! But I just don't see myself posting here on the bin forums again! So I want to say thank you too the ones that I have enjoyed and learned from and good luck too the rest of you ;)

Ohhh, and one last thing! Your SE's are not made of ice people! They don't melt in the rain or humidity! I really don't care if you believe me or not but my 10x's have seen weeks in the rain and still look and perform like new! They are beautiful bins with beautiful views! And they have a warranty to boot! So go out ye all! Into the fields and forests and shores and enjoy! Enjoy what you have! And don't compromise this with something inferior! You have the best now enjoy it at every possible moment!
Click to expand...

OK! Don't leave I will take my SE's to Costa Rica. But if they suck water in it's your fault!

Dennis
 
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