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Old Tuesday 12th September 2017, 23:39   #26
Alexis Powell
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Originally Posted by Loud Green Man View Post
..."Behaviour"?!? ...What element of my stab at lighted-heatred and irony-laced banter is so unacceptable to you?

Then there is the charge of daring to suggest an allegiance to a brand that evidently no other member is guilty of!...

...I wish to get it right so I'm not banned...
To clarify. First, in the grand scheme, I'm not much bothered by your comments. I would hope the same would be true of most others on Birdforum, so I wouldn't be too concerned about being banned. By behaviour, I'm referring to your habit (not just on this thread) of offering (what I interpret as) unhelpful, flippant suggestions/comments. I couldn't tell you were kidding about allegiance to a binocular, and it seems maybe you weren't. I'm intrigued by your use of the word allegiance because I find it shocking that anyone would have that relationship to anything other than a person (or other being), a collective/community, or an idea/ideal. "Allegiance" is a relationship that involves not just loyalty, but subordinate status. As a human being, I can't imagine choosing to be subordinate to a manufactured object. Maybe that is just an example of your claimed use of irony, which I also missed.

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Old Tuesday 12th September 2017, 23:52   #27
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Making waaay too much out of this, IMO.
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Old Wednesday 13th September 2017, 20:37   #28
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LGM and Alex

James is right about this. Don't blow this up out of all proportion.

One of the problems with the internet and emails is that we only have the words on the website or email to go on. We can't see facial expression or body language or hear tone of voice. It can lead to misinterpretations and unnecessary frictions.

Lets stay cool here, please.

Lee
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Old Wednesday 13th September 2017, 21:31   #29
Tobias Mennle
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Originally Posted by GLOBETROTTER View Post
Hi.

I dint use to much the diopter just first time in the store and second time in the open field for fine tuning.

What i found at some distances the binocular was sharper and at others not so there is an influence when the focus wheel os move and the diopter setting varies by itself.

As i bought the binocular in January must be an early sample and probably now Leica already fix those bugs i don't know what i don't like at all is the terrible service that they provide.

I really like the optics of the Noctivid as photographer working with uber expensive lenses, cameras and calibrated monitors i can say that by far the noctivid has the best color of any binocular on Market but all of this problems push me to get one Swarovski 10x50 Field pro.

I am so tired now that i don't know if i want the binocular back or my money.

Very Sad to say that but i don't have any hope that they can fix or replace it.
I assumed your problem might be this: It is very common that the focus mechanism synching the barrels does not work perfectly, even in alpha bins. If you change the diopter, it will bring the focus back, but with the next focusing the image will be drifting away again. It is often more obvious in close focus and less at infinity.

I saw this in all the three Conquest HDs I checked, from slight to obvious. I even had it in one out of four Ultravids. I had it in an EDG which became hot. I had a totally broke focus in a used Zeiss HT. And so on.

I never had issues with 3 Swarovskis functionally, but a lot of roughness and squealing in the focusers.

Focus mechanisms seem to be rocket science. Let´s hope Noctivid will not walk in Zeiss SF footsteps.
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Old Wednesday 13th September 2017, 22:44   #30
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Focus mechanisms seem to be rocket science. Let´s hope Noctivid will not walk in Zeiss SF footsteps.
Sorry for thread drift, but I'm curious what you mean here - have there been a lot of issues with the SF as well?
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Old Wednesday 13th September 2017, 23:29   #31
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Sorry for thread drift, but I'm curious what you mean here - have there been a lot of issues with the SF as well?
There is not an issue with the Zeiss SF focuser. I have had the 10x42 SF
for almost 2 years. The focuser is very smooth, better than any of the
Swarovski's I have experience with, and I own several.

I have had several Zeiss models, and have not had an issue with any
focuser on the newer ones. Nikon still leads the way, I find them to have
a very good handle on focusers, from under $100 models to the EDG.

Since this is a Leica thread, my Ultravid HD 8x42, has that little bit
of drag, it does not bother me, as some say it is a design decision.

I am not sure if there has been any other discussion of the SF focuser
that was not positive.

Jerry
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Old Thursday 14th September 2017, 02:11   #32
Bill Atwood
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Interesting to read about the focus sync issue. I had it with Swaro 8.5x42 ELs.

The defect/failure rate of new alpha bins rather disappointing. In fact I think my experience has been that it is well over 50%. And I don't even evaluate them by the various optic tests some folks on BF use. Over 22 years I've had 2 bad Leicas (foreign object inside & a very obvious clarity issue), the Swaro, and 2 Zeiss with focus wheel problems. Almost need a wrench to turn the focus wheel on the 10x32 FLs I just purchased from the EO closeout sale.

At least the sellers and manufacturer's bat 1.000 on returns/repairs. The FLs are going to Zeiss tomorrow, hope to have the same success.
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Old Thursday 14th September 2017, 09:52   #33
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Originally Posted by pbjosh View Post
Sorry for thread drift, but I'm curious what you mean here - have there been a lot of issues with the SF as well?
Some early (grey) SFs had an issue with the focuser which could feel 'tight' in upto 3 places during the full focus movement. By no means all greys were affected and many were fine. However Zeiss refined the focus mechanism so that the last grey SFs and all of the black ones do not have this issue. The focus on current SFs is silky smooth and precise, as it was on many of the original grey ones.

Lee
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Old Thursday 14th September 2017, 10:28   #34
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Focus sync problems are indeed quite common in binoculars of any price range. Eliminating or minimizing them is the reason why Swarovski has the springs on the focus shafts, whereby people readily complain that the focus action demands different levels of force depending on direction of movement. Some have even complained about the sound the springs make.

How problematic diopter drift due to focus sync imperfections is depends highly on the individual user and their eye accommodation. When younger, I could take almost any amount, but nowadays at a ripe non-accommodating age, I'm highly sensitive to it. Since a large percentage of demanding binocular users are no longer young, this is an area which manufacturers should take very seriously.

BTW, for testing whether and how much diopter drift there is, mounting the binoculars on a tripod and examining each tube separately with a booster or another binocular is a good method since it takes away the accommodation of the eye from play. You set the focus on the booster to a fixed setting, and focus the left tube of the binocular so that the image through the booster is sharp. Then, through the booster, set diopter so that both tubes are sharp through the booster. Then, focus closer than the target with the focus wheel, and re-focus with the booster behind the left eyepiece only moving focus from close to far until the image is sharp. Now, check that the left tube is also in focus. Repeat the procedure coming from beyond infinity focus to sharp focus. If diopter drifts, you will readily see it through the booster.

Kimmo
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Old Thursday 14th September 2017, 11:42   #35
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Kimmo, thank You very much for your help. Very useful, as ever.
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Old Thursday 14th September 2017, 12:19   #36
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Thank as well to those who responded about the SF problem.

I have experienced a diopter "drift" type problem in only one binocular, an early production Conquest HD. The diopter, after extensive use, began to require further and further shift to achieve an actual neutral setting (which I use with my glasses). Eventually the diopter correction became unable to bring the two barrels into focus at the same time. Zeiss quickly remedied the situation and I've never had another problem nor heard of this problem in other Conquests.
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Old Thursday 14th September 2017, 12:42   #37
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Kimmo, that's a great post many thanks.

My experience with Swarovision binoculars is that they do possess a very high level of synchronicity.

I have some older but mint looking Zeiss roof binoculars with non-synchronous diopter and focusing issues. One way of getting around this without repair is to set the diopter while focusing in only one direction, eg: 'near to far. The focuser will then operate effectively and can be used but will only function properly (be synchronous) through that one chosen direction. If the user overshoots focus, then the main focuser will have to be wound back a half turn or so and then refocused again from near to far to once again account for all of the faulty mechanical slack in the mechanism. No back and forth fine focusing is possible.

...Then, Resetting the same diopter for 'far to near' focusing will work in just the same way and will show how non-synchronous the bins are. You'll be able to see the difference by reading the diopter dial.

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Old Thursday 14th September 2017, 14:08   #38
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Globetrotter

Have you had any response from Leica yet?

Lee
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Old Thursday 14th September 2017, 20:09   #39
Martin Smyth
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I've had a minor issue with my Noctivids, causing me to want them sent back to Germany, my local optics retailers since told me they may not be back before i go to shetland this year, but the rep has assured them if my Bins aren't returned, i will have a brand new pair to take with me,....So Leica are listening to consumers and upping their post customer services..
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Old Thursday 14th September 2017, 20:10   #40
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Personally I hate the two-in-one focus solution. It's an answer to a question that no one was asking - the dioptre on the hinge [a la many Zeiss] or on the right eyepiece works just fine and is far less complex.
Geovids have it on the eyepiece. Seems a better solution to me too
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Old Thursday 14th September 2017, 23:09   #41
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I've had a minor issue with my Noctivids, causing me to want them sent back to Germany, my local optics retailers since told me they may not be back before i go to shetland this year, but the rep has assured them if my Bins aren't returned, i will have a brand new pair to take with me,....So Leica are listening to consumers and upping their post customer services..
As they have proven to do so in the last two years

Jan
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Old Friday 15th September 2017, 09:54   #42
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Globetrotter

Have you had any response from Leica yet?

Lee
Hi Troubador.

They contact me but i have some mix felling about what they told me.

Now they want to binocular to be sent to Germany instead of Portugal maybe to do a closer inspection and check and learn about whats wrong with this unit.

But nothing about to offer me another replacement so thats mean thant i have to wait until they finish ?

I don't Know.......i already told them to give me another sample because after paid in January for this NV most of the time was not in my hands always with problems and traveling to be fixed.

Tired about this situation i already upgrade my lovely SV 10X42 bought early 2011 for a SV 10X50 FP and as it should be is an absolutely perfect sample with an amazing focus and collimation.

I still missing the almost APO colors of the NV and his amazing Veil glare and stray light suppression but in normal conditions i mean not looking towards or close to the sun the SV is an absolutely amazing binocular a truly Masterpiece.
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Old Friday 15th September 2017, 15:23   #43
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If it was bought in January and has spent most of it's life in Leica repair facilities, it is time Leica stepped up and replaced it.
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Old Friday 15th September 2017, 15:51   #44
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Personally I hate the two-in-one focus solution. It's an answer to a question that no one was asking - the dioptre on the hinge [a la many Zeiss] or on the right eyepiece works just fine and is far less complex.
You can say that again. An answer to a question no one was asking - that's it.

Mind you, I've got a feeling even the two-in-one focusers worked alright until the manufacturers started making binoculars with very close focus. The Trinovid BA of the 1990s for instance never suffered from the problems reported here (and elsewhere).

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Old Friday 15th September 2017, 18:49   #45
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Overall, I prefer hinge-located diopter rings, including integrated ones, over right eyepiece ones. In contrast to others, I've had plenty of the latter that don't hold their setting, and I've never had trouble with the former. I really like the Leica diopter adjustment of the Trinovid BA/BN and that is the same for the Ultravid (other than pocket) models. It is easy to adjust and yet is very secure. I like it better than the diopter control of the Zeiss FL and Swarovski EL models, but they have never given me trouble.

--AP
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Old Monday 18th September 2017, 04:15   #46
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I Do a lot of photography at hight level and i already have more than 15TH leica products register by me in the Leica Owner area, the Noctivid are Peanuts as any Leica Lens can be from the same price up to 5 times the price of the NV.
Yeah that's so true. I'm not suggesting that the Noctivid is good value, but looking at the Leica catalog, the price of admission for a German made Noctivid is indeed peanuts in the 'Leica' scheme of things. In fact, Leica camera and lens products are so outrageously expensive that it seems slightly bizarre to think they can still grind the lenses and build a binocular in Germany and sell it on for so little money.

Here's a nice little Leica package. Shipping is free.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/LEICA-LEITZ-...MAAOSwRwhZrRxq
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Old Monday 18th September 2017, 11:47   #47
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Here's a nice little Leica package. Shipping is free.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/LEICA-LEITZ-...MAAOSwRwhZrRxq
Nice! I thought I might splash out on one of these:

http://www.popphoto.com/gear/2012/08...risingly-leica

Cheers
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Old Monday 18th September 2017, 23:29   #48
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Nice! I thought I might splash out on one of these:

http://www.popphoto.com/gear/2012/08...risingly-leica

Cheers
John
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Old Saturday 23rd September 2017, 06:52   #49
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If it was bought in January and has spent most of it's life in Leica repair facilities, it is time Leica stepped up and replaced it.
I'm definitely in agreement. GT has been very patient in waiting this out. At this stage, the fact that an instant replacement hasn't been offered by Leica, borders on sheer rudeness and customer service incompetency.

I realize that different markets and economies handle service differently but I'm not used to experiencing this in the states, at least not to the extent of feeling powerless to effect the outcome or not having some recourse option.

Although I enjoy all of my Leica products, this doesn't give me confidence that my best money is spent with them today. I had been warming to the idea of a 7x35 Trinovid classic but gosh, I don't want to have to deal with a Leica warranty issue, especially when companies like Swarovski and Nikon are at the opposite end of the customer service spectrum.

GT, I really hope this all works out for you. I suspect that it will but it's very frustrating to spent alpha funds and get this kind of warranty service. Best wishes to you man and please keep us updated.

Last edited by Patriot222 : Saturday 23rd September 2017 at 06:54. Reason: spelling
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Old Monday 25th September 2017, 16:45   #50
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Hi Jesus,

Any white smoke yet out of the chimney?

Jan
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