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Bosma Sport Optics spotted at the SHOT show 2009 (1 Viewer)

Kevin Purcell

Kevin Purcell

Well-known member
If you haven't read my ramblings before then this won't make much sense.

Bosma? Who?

They OEM/ODM Vixen and Fujinon. They also ODM their own bins. Including what looks like the RSPB HD (an closed-hinge ED bin for sale in the UK).

e.g. http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=126380&highlight=bosma

Then I noticed with amusement this blog entry:

http://libertyoptics.blogspot.com/2009/01/shot-show-report-thursday-january-15.html

Bosma Sport Optics: For some reason, I lingered unnecessarily long at this booth and a polite Chinese gentleman behind the counter took up some conversation. I checked out some rifle scopes that I simply filed away in the NSL (No Second Look) pile. However, I eventually realized that these guys were the Chinese factory for Fujinon. After connecting some dots I found out that Bosma make a pair of ED glass binos (8x42 and 10x42) that I spent quite some time with. Audible and tactical clicks on the focus wheel mounted diopter adjustment, a decent focus mechanism and surprising good optics that were free of chromatic aberration and any serious physical flaws. Hmmmmmm. When I got my price quote for some quantity buys on these binos, well, all I can say is that those who believe the Chinese can't provide good value on quality optics simply have their head in the sand. Chinese optics factories can do anything they need to. I've seen it year after year here at SHOT.
Click to expand...

I wonder ... really I do ... are they the magic ODM ;)

When will they start selling under their own brand in the USA?

BTW the other Chinese ODMs were at SHOT. I shall be checking out their web sites over the next couple of days.
 
Kevin Purcell said:
When will they start selling under their own brand in the USA?
Click to expand...

There are plenty of OE's at trade shows... this is no secret. And they're there for a reason. These guys make a pretty good living making bins for the Bushnells, Vortexes, leupolds, etc, etc. And there's nothing wrong with that.

But to think they'll be selling to the USA market soon under their own brand. Grasshopper... you have much to learn;) Selling out of your car trunk with a "me too" is one thing... but developing a national brand is quite another. But to wish is good. I really am interested in the Hawkes, Zen-Rays and Promasters (and other "new" brands) and really want to see how these companies do. To see all the work (and money) a brand like Vortex has to put into marketing, distributing, warehousing, developing and selling and when you understand how much depth of knowledge they had when they began the brand you get a feel of how much work and time it takes to make a "real" brand. And by real brand I mean one that is invested in the market... not just in selling product.

You'll be surprised at who falls victim to this economy over the next year or two or three. I think some are very close to the edge at the moment.
 
Promaster has had a business set up here for years. The camera stores then carry their bins or not. My local store has no clue they have useful binoculars now, though they carried a few models before.
 
oleaf said:
There are plenty of OE's at trade shows... this is no secret. And they're there for a reason. These guys make a pretty good living making bins for the Bushnells, Vortexes, leupolds, etc, etc. And there's nothing wrong with that.

But to think they'll be selling to the USA market soon under their own brand. Grasshopper... you have much to learn;) Selling out of your car trunk with a "me too" is one thing... but developing a national brand is quite another.
Click to expand...

You mean a international brand in the West ... Bosma already have a national brand in China. They sell under their own name there.

That's why I think they could do a Lenovo and break out of their internal market. Of course if a international brand were to hit the wall and were to get bought out ... why that sounds like Lenovo buying IBMs laptop business.

This is a bit different from some of the other Chinese ODMs that do just that: design and build original equipment for others.

But as you say building an international brand as you say isn't easy and is perhaps the next step in their development as they develop their internal brand.
 
One thing that I wondered if we would see coming from the shot show was someone without a true alpha glass using the Bosma OEM design to take a serious shot at the top end. With the Promaster/Hawke/ZEN we have as generally less than $500 binocular that gives fully 98-99% of the alpha optics.

I have always wondered what might happen if someone put another $250-300 into this. If there was some refinements to deepen the field of view, better handle stray light issues, maybe replace the silver prisms with dielectric ones, speed up the focus a little, and add a some beef and extra style to the construction. It seems that whoever does that first could come in with a true alpha competitor at a far lower price than what we pay for that level now. I think it's still coming, just not yet.
 
Alpha bins are more than just the optics. They're a sociological condition. And part of that is a function of the bin's brand.

That's why I prefer to use top bins or some other more neutral phrase that applies only to the optics not playing into the "Alpha bins" == Top 4 bin makers or Top European 3 for some people (by definition).

I know what you mean though. It would take perhaps a bit more careful design e.g. dealing with stray light issues distinguishes top bins from the Chinese EDs and better ergonomics. And in quality of production.

I think this might take more effort than you might think to try to get it just right.
 
Steve C said:
It seems that whoever does that first could come in with a true alpha competitor at a far lower price than what we pay for that level now. I think it's still coming, just not yet.
Click to expand...

Steve,

What about Meopta? European brand, unique designs, excellent performance and costs approx. half the Alpha equal. It's already here.

Cheers
 
True enough on the Meopta. Though I've not looked at one I know some people (like FrankD) with whom my views are "synced" together who really likes his pair (in fact sold the 42mm and 32mm Zeiss and kept the Meopta 42mm and looks set to buy the new 32mm).

But the "Alpha" term crops up again. Even using my "top bin" term (which is pretty lame ... I need something more snappy). What makes a "top bin" (or "alpha" is you must)?* How can you reasonable objectively** say that this is a "top bin".

* The answer "The top of the range from one of Swaro, Leica, Zeiss [and optionally Nikon]" doesn't count.

** I use that word guardedly because even when one does some reproducible measurements one still doesn't catch of all of the oddities, compromises and feel of a bin in lab tests. And for the reproducible measurements which ones do you do?
 
Kevin,

I don't like the word Alpha but lets use this term for now.

Swaro, Leica, Zeiss, Meopta, Nikon, Kowa, Steiner, Doctor, Fujinon all make a series binocular I would call Alpha or top for using for birding, hunting, astro... what ever.

Design, construction methods, proprietary innovations, coatings, durability and history of company all play a part to make something a top bin. For anyone to say or search for a "top of everything" smacks of a foolish search (but that's just my foolish opinion).

Give me a Nikon E2 (that damn bino has broken some hearts... mine included), a Niko SE, a Meopta, a Swaro (wish I could afford) or any other that would fit how I work in the field and I would be happy. And I'm really picky.

I'm with Denco... pick your brand and say "X brand is the best". In my case "pick Meopta... it's the best!"

But, I'd use any bin that fits the bill and be happy. It's the tacky (not sticky), gimmicky
things that the low end bins do visually and ergonomically that turn me off. (I'm so shallow)

A bino is a product to be held... and so much goes into design other than pure view.

As for the measurements... which ones do I use? None. I'm the constant. And I have a set of requirements
that determine what I need. And I also won't give an opinion on a bin that I haven't looked through.

Bins I've bought and really liked... Meopta 7x42, Leupold Katmai 6x, Audubon Equinox HP (real nice... no bull),
Yosemite 6x, Nikon E2 (sob, sob... I wear glasses)

Cheers
 
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Oleaf: sounds like we have very similar outloooks on this. I'd agree with most of what you've said (including the tacky stuff at the low end) but I don't have a brand (though I do have quite a few bins from the same company).

I like your list of "alphas" (though I'd quibble with the "and history of company" part ... that's a good way to preserve an aristocracy and keep out the nouveau riche!).

I have also wondered in the usual usage if "alphaness" is time invariant or not. Are older "alpha" bins still "alpha" bins or does their "alphaness" decay with time.

Is my Zeiss Victory 8x40 "alpha"? I presume it was alpha when it first came out (though not the top alpha bin looking at the reviews).

Is it still "alpha" today?

These apparently non-alpha Chinese ED bins are sharper and more contrasty than the Zeiss Victory 8x40. Does that make them "alpha". Though the Chinese EDs might loose in stray light, at least the Promaster does a bit, the others might not).

Are they "alpha"?

You see now why I think "alphaness" is a sociological condition? Perhaps something like "cool" ;)

EDIT: BTW these aren't rhetorical questions. I'm curious what other people think about "alphaness".
 
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Kevin Purcell said:
I like your list of "alphas" (though I'd quibble with the "and history of company" part ... that's a good way to preserve an aristocracy and keep out the nouveau riche!).
Click to expand...

Well, my comment on history was more of a history of a company making their own stuff over time, and developing a depth of knowledge of the products they build and the markets they serve. Not just taking apart their rivals products and "improving them" to make their own.

This is what I meant by history. Nothing to quibble at;)

Cheers
 
Steve,

Did you get your Zen Ray's yet? I think you might be surprised with the stray light control definitely in comparison to the Hawkes and possibly in comparison to the Promasters.

Ahh, and the Meopta 32 mm finally found its way to my hands. I don't know what previous negative comments were referring to. This binocular is easily, the optical equivalent of the Swaro EL 32 mm with very similar ergonomics and possibly less color fringing. A beautiful little instrument it is. Now I just have to find a way to fund one.

...more to follow on this "alpha" glass. ;)
 
Frank,

Zen ED's arrived. Impressions posted.

So you like the little Meopta. Wanna buy it huh? Told ya so!|:D|

I agree it is the equivalent of the higher price EL. For the quality it is a better deal by a long shot.
 
Steve,

I am floored that this little model has not been talked about more at this point. It is as if they took all the constructive comments on the 42 mm and improved upon them with the 32 mm model...at least from an optical perspective. Ergonomically I love these little bins. They are easily as ergonomic as the little ELs with a wonderfully pleasing texture to them. Eye relief is excellent in my opinion and they have that same "easy view" as the little ELs.
 
Yeah, for $1,000 less than the EL it would be real hard to justify the cost. Only if you were convinced you had to have the EL and had the money. But for an 8x32 usable in any situation an 8x32 could be expected to work, I do not see how you could make a mistake with the Meopta.

There is only one "issue" I might see with the Meopta. I wish the diopter adjustment was the behind the focus wheel style. It looks to me like the long cone shape knob, which, if I remember correctly, doesn't lock, could have a tendency to get moved when you didn't want that to happen.

One of those, a good 7x42 and a good 10x would cover just about any situation, except for a true pocket size need. You could get one of the other two for the $1,000 saved, with a down payment on the third left over.

Now here we are on a Bosma thread talking about Meopta's.
 
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oleaf said:
Steve,

What about Meopta? European brand, unique designs, excellent performance and costs approx. half the Alpha equal. It's already here.

Cheers
Click to expand...

Oleaf,

I don't know where I was, but I just now saw your post. I was really referring to the Bosma style binoculars. But you are absolutely correct about the Meopta. Somewhere here recently I posted a note about my observations of the Meopta 8x32. Also note that last couple of exchanges between FrankD and I.

Now that I go back and look, I see it was you that started that Meopta 8x32 thread.
 
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Back to Bosma ...

More conversations after the SHOT show show that Bosma can deliver their ED bins (previously mentioned) with a minimum order (50 piece order for Bosma branded bin and a 100 piece order for a own branded optic) that results in a dealer selling for $250 shipped. That's retail price not wholesale dealer price.

And me ... I still think that Bosma has a good chance of being the ODM/OEM for Hawke and Zen Ray. And possibly Promaster but that one feels a little different. But that's still just speculation.

BTW, the RSPB HD, which I think is a closed hinge Bosma ED bin, is selling in the UK for £500. That's quite a margin if that is the case!
 
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