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Nikon EDG 10x32 eyecups: why unadjustable for spectacles wearers? (1 Viewer)

Dorian Gray

Well-known member
If there is one aspect of binoculars that consistently disappoints me, it is the eyecups. You’d think eyecups would be easy after designing a fiendishly complex optical system, but manufacturers mess up in all sorts of ingenious ways.

My latest disappointment is the EDG 10x32. The eyecups are metal and admirably solid, with crisp click stops. They are quite comfortable too, albeit a bit too large in diameter and lacking in ‘give’ for my taste. (I like eyecups that yield to sideways forces when I look off axis and push the binocular laterally in my eye sockets to align my eye’s pupil with the exit pupil.)

But my complaint: the EDG eyecups have a large gap between the fully retracted (‘eyeglasses’) position and the next click stop. After that there are other click stops differing by only 2–3 mm, which is good. When I view with the naked eye, all is good.

When I view with glasses, as I sometimes do, there is no perfect position. The fully retracted position results in slightly too much eye relief, while extending the eyecup the roughly 6 mm to the first ‘naked eye’ click-stop results in vignetting.

I cannot understand the logic behind this design. It is precisely those of us who wear spectacles who need fine adjustment of the eye relief, because we must place the binocular squarely against our glasses and hope the eye relief works. We can’t tilt our head up or down to adjust the effective eye relief, perching only the top or bottom edge of the eyecup against our glasses and viewing at an angle, because the resulting non-perpendicular line of sight through our glasses introduces aberrations.

When viewing without glasses it is almost always possible to adjust the effective eye relief by tilting your head back and forth while pivoting the edge of an eyecup against a brow or cheekbone. So precise adjustment of eye relief is less important for the naked eye, albeit still desirable (and surely easy to provide!).

So why does Nikon assume all glasses wearers need the same eye relief? Answers on a postcard!
 
Using O-rings to adjust eye relief

If there is one aspect of binoculars that consistently disappoints me, it is the eyecups. You’d think eyecups would be easy after designing a fiendishly complex optical system, but manufacturers mess up in all sorts of ingenious ways....So why does Nikon assume all glasses wearers need the same eye relief? Answers on a postcard!

I've encountered a number of binoculars that have too much eye relief for my personal combination of face and nose and eyeglasses, and the superb Nikon 7x42 EDG is one of them. As you have observed, the EDG's eyepiece doesn't have a click-stop a few millimeters up from the bottom position, so it gives me either too much eye relief or too little.

I've found that a rubber O-ring of the right size placed over the tube of the eyepiece will lift it up just enough to give me the correct amount of eye relief. The 7x42 EDG has an eyepiece tube diameter of 40mm; an international standard R-27 size O-ring has an inside diameter of 37.3mm and a ring thickness of 3.6mm, and it fits nicely over the EDG's eyepiece tube. I've attached some photos to show what it looks like.
 

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here is my solutions while I wear with glasses: 1. twist up eyecups a few mm up, though there is no "click" stop, but eyecups can stay there quite firmly. 2. that is my ultimate solutions. change glasses with higher nose support, so that the distance b/w your eyes and glasses is further. with my new glasses, i never need to hold binos a little bit back to compensate the long eye relief.
 
Thanks for your suggestions. It seems I’m not the only one with this problem. Of course, with all the different facial structures and types of glasses out there, it would be remarkable if one eye-relief value made everyone happy. For that reason I’m baffled that Nikon neglected to provide adjustable eye relief for wearers of glasses. Oh well.
 
Thanks for your suggestions. It seems I’m not the only one with this problem. Of course, with all the different facial structures and types of glasses out there, it would be remarkable if one eye-relief value made everyone happy. For that reason I’m baffled that Nikon neglected to provide adjustable eye relief for wearers of glasses. Oh well.

I thought that's what the 1st adjustment on the eye cups was for. It's way too close for me and I don't wear glasses. The 2nd one is usable but not as good as the last one. I have a 10 x 32 EDG I. Full ER is 17.3mm and it is very comfortable for me. The earlier LX L, which I also have, is 16mm.

Bob
 
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This is something I have addressed with Nikon in the past. As always, our engineers deliver with these changes. I would expect this kind of problem to be corrected in the future. Thanks for bringing this to everyone's attention.

All the best,
Mike
Nikon
 
I thought that's what the 1st adjustment on the eye cups was for. It's way too close for me and I don't wear glasses. The 2nd one is usable but not as good as the last one.
The problem is the distance between the fully retracted position and the first click-stop is too great – around 6 mm. When using glasses, my desired position happens to be between those positions. John Frink uses a 3.6 mm O-ring to get an in-between position, and Justinjun just does without a click-stop, relying on friction to hold the eyecup in place. These solutions might work but they’re not elegant.

The other click-stops, farther out, are separated by smaller gaps and should work for everyone or almost everyone. They work for me when I’m not wearing glasses.

Tell me this, ceasar, if you’re feeling generous with your time: does the LX L 10x32 also have a large jump to the first click-stop? Perhaps you could roughly measure it with a ruler.

This is something I have addressed with Nikon in the past. As always, our engineers deliver with these changes. I would expect this kind of problem to be corrected in the future. Thanks for bringing this to everyone's attention.
Thanks, Mike. I don’t want to be seen to be whining. Obviously the existing setup works for most people, maybe 95 % of users. It just seems it would be super-easy for Nikon to make it work for everyone, by adding another click-stop somewhere between the first two, or by spacing the click-stops evenly rather than having that big jump to the first one.

The optics of the EDG 10x32 are phenomenal, and the build quality is very, very good. I was impressed.
 
The problem is the distance between the fully retracted position and the first click-stop is too great – around 6 mm. When using glasses, my desired position happens to be between those positions. John Frink uses a 3.6 mm O-ring to get an in-between position, and Justinjun just does without a click-stop, relying on friction to hold the eyecup in place. These solutions might work but they’re not elegant.

The other click-stops, farther out, are separated by smaller gaps and should work for everyone or almost everyone. They work for me when I’m not wearing glasses.

Tell me this, ceasar, if you’re feeling generous with your time: does the LX L 10x32 also have a large jump to the first click-stop? Perhaps you could roughly measure it with a ruler.


Thanks, Mike. I don’t want to be seen to be whining. Obviously the existing setup works for most people, maybe 95 % of users. It just seems it would be super-easy for Nikon to make it work for everyone, by adding another click-stop somewhere between the first two, or by spacing the click-stops evenly rather than having that big jump to the first one.

The optics of the EDG 10x32 are phenomenal, and the build quality is very, very good. I was impressed.

Dorian,

Yes, The LX Ls have a long jump to the first click stop like the EDG does. As near as I can tell it is just about the same on both of them. There is only 1.3mm ER difference between them and their proportionate distances at the click stops seem just about the same.

Bob
 
The problem is the distance between the fully retracted position and the first click-stop is too great – around 6 mm. When using glasses, my desired position happens to be between those positions. John Frink uses a 3.6 mm O-ring to get an in-between position, and Justinjun just does without a click-stop, relying on friction to hold the eyecup in place. These solutions might work but they’re not elegant.

The other click-stops, farther out, are separated by smaller gaps and should work for everyone or almost everyone. They work for me when I’m not wearing glasses.

Tell me this, ceasar, if you’re feeling generous with your time: does the LX L 10x32 also have a large jump to the first click-stop? Perhaps you could roughly measure it with a ruler.


Thanks, Mike. I don’t want to be seen to be whining. Obviously the existing setup works for most people, maybe 95 % of users. It just seems it would be super-easy for Nikon to make it work for everyone, by adding another click-stop somewhere between the first two, or by spacing the click-stops evenly rather than having that big jump to the first one.

The optics of the EDG 10x32 are phenomenal, and the build quality is very, very good. I was impressed.


I don't have a problem with the 8x32 EDG but I do with the 7x42 EDG and after much experimentation my solution is shown in the attachments below.

The spacers are made from 40mm PVC waste pipe and can be cut to any length, so they can be made to fit any required eye relief. Mine are 5mm.

I provides quite an elegant solution and looks even better when fitted than the close up photographs. In fact they look like an original part of the binocular and match the shiny Nikon EDG logo in the front.

However, be warned - you could end up with a pile of failures on the floor around you. It is difficult to cut thin walled PVC tube to such a narrow section and I have had to resort to a chop saw to get a good fit and even finish.

Stan

P1000204_edited-3.jpg

P1000206_edited-2.jpg

P1000210_edited-2.jpg

P1000212_edited-2.jpg
 
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sorry for hijacking this topic, but does anyone find the eyepiece cap for EDG 10x32 (1st gen) way too loose? I checked the manual and it seems to be correct (Part number ECQ for 32mm and ECP for 42mm) for 32mm model. But it is very loose and won`t stay on if you flip it.
 
sorry for hijacking this topic, but does anyone find the eyepiece cap for EDG 10x32 (1st gen) way too loose? I checked the manual and it seems to be correct (Part number ECQ for 32mm and ECP for 42mm) for 32mm model. But it is very loose and won`t stay on if you flip it.

Hi,

I just checked my 10x32 EDG I (1st generation). The part # is ECQ. It's rainguard does fit loosely. I find if I open the binocular to it's full width and then turn it upside down that the rainguard (ocular cover) will fall off it, but if I leave the binocular closed to my IPD of 69mm and then turn it upside down that the rainguard will stay on it.

Bob
 
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sorry for hijacking this topic, but does anyone find the eyepiece cap for EDG 10x32 (1st gen) way too loose? I checked the manual and it seems to be correct (Part number ECQ for 32mm and ECP for 42mm) for 32mm model. But it is very loose and won`t stay on if you flip it.

The 42 ECP and the 32 ECQ rainguards on both my binoculars are a loose fit over the individual eyepieces, but when they are fitted over the both eyepieces the "bendy hinge" in the centre provides sufficient tension to keep them in place, so I have no problem in use. The same rainguards are used on the Mk ll versions.

My IPD is also 69mm and, like Ceasar, I can turn them upside down and the rainguard doesn't fall off.

I did have a Zeiss 8x32 FL and the rainguard on that was quite tight which I found to be a pain as I couldn't get it off quickly when I wanted to. I prefer the EDG solution.

Stan
 
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Thank you both. But IMHO, it is not a "loose fit", it is a "not fit" to me. A pair of loose fit jeans will likely to have plenty room in your leg and thighs, so you can move freely, but it will still sit at your waist and won`t fall down when you stand up (assuming you get the correct wrist size). However, the EDG rainguard is like a size 32 waist man wearing a size 40 pants. Well, the solution might be to bend you knees when you are walking or standing, so the pants will stay on...but is that purposely designed to be that way? In a flagship binocular costs over 1000USD, seriously? That is bold!

I called Nikon and sent them a funny video showing how loose the cover is, the CS said they will send me a different pair. And she told me it will be a different design. So I will wait and see. Now I am using my Bushnell Elite 8x42 rainguard and it fits perfectly.
 
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I never gave much thought to rain guards before this came up.

The only ones I noticed were those that were difficult to use or poorly designed.

For instance, I never liked the ones on my Swarovskis. On my 8x30 SLC I removed the rain guard that came with it and replaced it with an extra rain guard from an old 8x32 Kahles. It works with both regular eye cups and with winged eye cups. It is very light weight. It goes on easily and comes off quickly and stays out of the way when I am using the binocular. It looks very much like the rain guard that came with my Leica 7x42 Trinovid but it is much less bulky.

After some thought I have concluded that rain guards are good to have with you but they need three important attributes. You should be able to (1) put them on quickly, (2) take them off very quickly (with a flip of your forefinger) and (3) they should be so designed; light enough and/or soft enough so that you do not notice them when you are using the binocular.

The one supplied with my Nikon 10x32 has all those attributes and I think that is why I never paid much attention to it.

Bob
 
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The O-rings sound to me like a good solution. You should be able to get O-rings in the proper height and I.D./O.D.

Eyecups seem to be another of those examples in the world where the mechanically minded amongst us are like?? Really?

I feel like there is a business opportunity there for someone to make eyecups "right". I don't know many who have more than two people using a pair of binoculars and why can't they make a setup where you have say two "sets" on twist up eyecups. One for each partner. He wears glasses and she doesn't or vice versa, so both will be wanting to use the particular binocular and oftentimes if they are like the other humans on planet earth.. on say "an afternoon walk together" so it will be quite handy to switch from his to hers and back and forth as the need arises.
 
I never gave much thought to rain guards before this came up.

The only ones I noticed were those that were difficult to use or poorly designed.

For instance, I never liked the ones on my Swarovskis. On my 8x30 SLC I removed the rain guard that came with it and replaced it with an extra rain guard from an old 8x32 Kahles. It works with both regular eye cups and with winged eye cups. It is very light weight. It goes on easily and comes off quickly and stays out of the way when I am using the binocular. It looks very much like the rain guard that came with my Leica 7x42 Trinovid but it is much less bulky.

After some thought I have concluded that rain guards are good to have with you but they need three important attributes. You should be able to (1) put them on quickly, (2) take them off very quickly (with a flip of your forefinger) and (3) they should be so designed; light enough and/or soft enough so that you do not notice them when you are using the binocular.

The one supplied with my Nikon 10x32 has all those attributes and I think that is why I never paid much attention to it.

Bob


Hi Bob,

Now I think I know why you are not noticing it. I guess you must have the strap on all the time, so once you flip them off with your finger, they will still be attached to the strap. I usually don`t use the strap. And I know that is a bad habbit because I just lost one in the kayak trip in Kauai. But I just can`t stand the strap which makes the bins become builky. I prefer to have a cap at least stay on when it is tilted or flipped because I carry the binocular by hand. But I still think the rainguard is not supposed to fall off when the bins is upside down in fully open position, for example all my camera lens have the front and back caps stayed on regardless how it is flipped.

It is definitely not a big deal, I have several covers from other bins and it is interesting that all the other covers stay on the Nikon EDG nicely. So I really have a hard time to understand why it was designed that way. According to Nikon CS, they think that is a problem too and mentioned there is a NEW design available to ship to me. The CS might be wrong so I will know when I got them.

I agree with you 3 points about the rain guard, but for me there is a 4), it must stay on in fully open position upside down!
 
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Thank you both. But IMHO, it is not a "loose fit", it is a "not fit" to me. A pair of loose fit jeans will likely to have plenty room in your leg and thighs, so you can move freely, but it will still sit at your waist and won`t fall down when you stand up (assuming you get the correct wrist size). However, the EDG rainguard is like a size 32 waist man wearing a size 40 pants. Well, the solution might be to bend you knees when you are walking or standing, so the pants will stay on...but is that purposely designed to be that way? In a flagship binocular costs over 1000USD, seriously? That is bold!

I called Nikon and sent them a funny video showing how loose the cover is, the CS said they will send me a different pair. And she told me it will be a different design. So I will wait and see. Now I am using my Bushnell Elite 8x42 rainguard and it fits perfectly.

Interesting.

I have just tried the rainguard (ECQ) on my 8x32 Mk2's without a strap and no matter how hard I shake them when they are turned upside down, the rainguard doesn't fall off. It can also be fitted and unfitted quickly as Bob likes.

I wonder if I have the later version of the rainguard?.

Stan
 
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Hi Bob,

Now I think I know why you are not noticing it. I guess you must have the strap on all the time, so once you flip them off with your finger, they will still be attached to the strap. I usually don`t use the strap. And I know that is a bad habbit because I just lost one in the kayak trip in Kauai. But I just can`t stand the strap which makes the bins become builky. I prefer to have a cap at least stay on when it is tilted or flipped because I carry the binocular by hand. But I still think the rainguard is not supposed to fall off when the bins is upside down in fully open position, for example all my camera lens have the front and back caps stayed on regardless how it is flipped.

It is definitely not a big deal, I have several covers from other bins and it is interesting that all the other covers stay on the Nikon EDG nicely. So I really have a hard time to understand why it was designed that way. According to Nikon CS, they think that is a problem too and mentioned there is a NEW design available to ship to me. The CS might be wrong so I will know when I got them.

I agree with you 3 points about the rain guard, but for me there is a 4), it must stay on in fully open position upside down!

OK! I see where you are coming from now.

But if I were Kayaking with mine I would change the strap to a Flotation Strap!:t:

Nikon has one:

http://www.opticsplanet.com/nikon-d...X0Abg&ef_id=UrWsnAAABJy@vu83:20131221145836:s

Bob
 
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