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ZEISS DTI thermal imaging cameras. For more discoveries at night, and during the day.

Cornell Lab Review - Zeiss Did Very Well Here (1 Viewer)

Yes, we were discussing it down in the main binocular forum. It isn't too surprising. The FL was always a great performer and the Conquest HD and Victory HT seem to be very well received.
 
Within the seemingly OCD every little detail binocular community;), is the Cornell study considered the Consumer Reports of evaluations? I bought my first set of Alphas just this past Summer (Zeiss Mariners) so I'm still learning.

Anyway, I favorably used a pair of Zeiss HT's at a recently opened Gander Mountain, and the Cornell study would appear to seal the purchase decision for me.

Thanks

NEVER MIND, I just read the seven pages of Cornell thread in the main binoculars forums regarding this study. Yeesh. Sure is a lot of carping for a study that clearly published it's research design.
 
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dwever,

The short answer is that they are never going to please everyone with their reviews. I, for one, can be critical of some of their findings but I certainly appreciate the fact that they went through the time and trouble to put something of this nature together. And lets be honest, we all look forward to reading their review when it comes out every 4 or 5 years. ;)
 
I for one don't look forward to them, Frank. I've been irritated by the transparent shoddiness of these things since the first one I saw about 1987. Unfortunately, the association with a respected university seems to have the desired effect of bamboozling the unwary into believing they are reading the results of something that deserves to be called a "study" with a "research design".
 
Their reviews are certainly just as valid as 99% of the reviews here and, maybe, even more so as they at least have a format for their reviews.

The bottom line with the current review criticisms is because Swarovski took second place. :D
 
I for one don't look forward to them, Frank. I've been irritated by the transparent shoddiness of these things since the first one I saw about 1987. Unfortunately, the association with a respected university seems to have the desired effect of bamboozling the unwary into believing they are reading the results of something that deserves to be called a "study" with a "research design".

You give people too little credit to make up their own minds....
 
James,

Just curious. To make up their own minds ... about what?

Ed

About which bin to buy. I don't blindly trust Consumer Reports when I look to purchase an item and I sure as heck don't put any stock in Motor Trends ''car of the year.''

This is no different - lots of bias, lots of flaws, just a bit of fluff to keep us talking. I would think most people would see it this way.

The piece is more about what these people liked, rather than what is best. Just take it that way and move on. I guess I can see some of Henry's angst, as it is represented as a ''study'', but then again the world is full of ''studies'' that aren't worth the paper [or bandwidth] they are printed on.
 
Sorry Beth it doesn't mean they were the same, but that's not really the point. I'm just offended by the irrational, unscientific design, analysis and interpretation by a supposedly academic institution.

David
 
For those so critical - do a better test! I, for one, would love to read it.

If I lived near a optics shop, and had good relations with the owner, I would love to do this. Alas, I am three hours away, and it ain't likely to happen anytime soon - but I'm sure there are a couple of people here that have the contacts and abilities to do such a mega-test. Give a big plug to the shop and I'm sure you'd be off to the races.

Maybe someone like Proudpapa would be willing to host something like this.
 
Sorry Beth it doesn't mean they were the same, but that's not really the point. I'm just offended by the irrational, unscientific design, analysis and interpretation by a supposedly academic institution.

David

yes, I realized that they had to have contributed different amounts. I thought you were asking what the approximate funding level was.
Sorry, I didn't quite realize what you were asking.
 
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Still, for some reason, at the bottom of the first page they feel compelled to point out:
"Full disclosure: ZEISS and Optics Planet are sponsors of the Cornell Lab of Ornithology."

Why not all the others? One is led to conclude that Zeiss and Optics Planet made specific contributions for this survey project, whereas the others did not. The point is that what is said effects business, and what effects business effects what is said. How much independence remained is anyone's guess, but my guess is not very much.

For those who feel that it's a well constructed and meaningful survey report, you're certainly entitled to that opinion. However, for those who may harbor some doubts, consider these three statements embedded in the OVERALL METHODOLOGY.

OVERALL METHODOLOGY
To rank all 102 models, we invited birders from the
Cornell Lab of Ornithology staff and local birding
community to the outdoor patio at the Cornell Lab
on several afternoons in May. [1]We asked each reviewer
to rank a minimum of five models, in order
to “calibrate” their comparisons across different
models.
For each of the review categories below,
we asked reviewers to score each model from
1 to 5, with 1 = poor, 2 = fair, 3 = good, 4 = very
good, and 5 = excellent. We also invited specific
comments on each pair of binoculars. [2]We then averaged
the scores for each model across reviewers
and computed a Quality Index, as described below,
by combining the scores from each category.
Note
that all of these scores are subjective and reflect
the opinions and impressions of a diverse set of
bird watchers. [3]In the end, we gave greater weight
to our own (Jessie’s and Ken’s) scores, so we claim
a greater responsibility for the final rankings!

In addition to the subjective scores, we present
some basic specifications for each model, along
with the manufacturer’s suggested retail price and
information on warranties.

The first two statements, separately and combined, reflect a gross misunderstanding of how opinion data should be collected or combined to produce meaningful results. I would fail any student that presented me with such a study design. The last statement openly admits to an unspecified amount of experimenter bias to control the outcome.

As I mentioned recently in another thread, this was all done at a school that has a Statistical Consulting Unit to advise faculty on such matters http://www.cscu.cornell.edu/. It's mind boggling.

Ed
 
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For those so critical - do a better test! I, for one, would love to read it.

If I lived near a optics shop, and had good relations with the owner, I would love to do this. Alas, I am three hours away, and it ain't likely to happen anytime soon - but I'm sure there are a couple of people here that have the contacts and abilities to do such a mega-test. Give a big plug to the shop and I'm sure you'd be off to the races.

Maybe someone like Proudpapa would be willing to host something like this.

James:

That would be interesting, if Papa was the sponsor, but you do know
who would be the only company represented. ;)
Nothing wrong with that, I guess. Call it a demo day.

Jerry
 
And yet, for all its faults this survey has come up with results that aren't a million miles away from what a randomly selected group of us bino-loonies would come up with........

Lee
 
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