Tord suggest we start a new threa on this topic since I fist raised a question. Does on board camera image stabilzation aid IQ using a tipod mounted astroscope. I took a series of shots of my backyard birdbath all under identical exposure conditions with the focus locked down, the tripod locked down and used a remote shutter release. All shots were within a couple of minutes of each other so lighting was the same. I used the onboard IS with my Olympus E510 DSLR. No postprocessing other than heavy cropping on the second strip of pics. To my eyes IS-1 set manually for 400mm seems to give the best image. Also, I noticed a slight color shift going from IS Off to the On settings. there appears to be a blue cast when Off. Any comments?
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Use of image stabilization (4 Viewers)
- Thread starter rferrieri
- Start date
I suggest you post some bigger images, since it's hard to tell them appart right now.
Regarding the in camera IS - my experience when I used my E-3 was that I got better shots with IS off. However, I did not test it out as thoroughly as you now have done.
Now that I mainly use the EM-5 (OM-D) I do always have the IS1 ON - I shot with a gimbal.
The results are clearly better with IS1 on than off. But then again the 5 axis IS technology is nothing like the previous IS I've had.
Regarding the in camera IS - my experience when I used my E-3 was that I got better shots with IS off. However, I did not test it out as thoroughly as you now have done.
Now that I mainly use the EM-5 (OM-D) I do always have the IS1 ON - I shot with a gimbal.
The results are clearly better with IS1 on than off. But then again the 5 axis IS technology is nothing like the previous IS I've had.
JGobeil
Nature Photographer
IMO, it makes sense to use IS with the OM-D. The MF Assist function demontrates it quite clearly - this function activates a 10X electronic zoom to assist in manual focus. Using that function with a long zoom like the 100-300mm lens (600mm eq.) illustrates how much vibration there is, even with a stable tripod and head and no wind. There is a lot of vibration.
To push the demonstration further, it is possible to activate IS when MF Assist is active. The difference is amazing - the image becomes quite stable with almost no movement. The vibration is gone...
Yes I know, there should be no vibration but there is some left. At 6000mm, it doesn't take much and we clearly see it. This is the reason why many photographers use a large rubber band to dampen the lens on a tripod when looking for absolute stabillity.
DanC.Licks
AKA Daniel Bradley
I found with an Olympus E-30 (same IS as E-3/E-5), that I got better results with the IS (IS 1) on as long as the tripod head was not locked down, or if the camera was mounted on a monopod. Locked down was another story. There it was sometimes, but not always, worse.
The other approach is to get the ISO up as high as possible, which is usually better with birds anyway. I ruined a bunch of shots of diving Gannets last year on Harris (Scotland) by forgetting to turn the IS OFF! Got nice clear backgrounds and blurred birds.
The other approach is to get the ISO up as high as possible, which is usually better with birds anyway. I ruined a bunch of shots of diving Gannets last year on Harris (Scotland) by forgetting to turn the IS OFF! Got nice clear backgrounds and blurred birds.
Paul Corfield
Well-known member
DanC.Licks
AKA Daniel Bradley
Good point. I have a little folding three legged stool that I sit on. Bad on soft ground, though. Sinks right in.
A side benefit from sitting is that the tripod is very short legged and thus more stable.
A side benefit from sitting is that the tripod is very short legged and thus more stable.
For me sitting is not practical as I like to trek around and don't want the additional burden of a folding stool. I saw an interesting point about damping vibrations with a rubber band. Some folks in this forum talk about keeping hands on camera during shooting. This may help dampen slight vibrations. I've been using a remote shutter release but wonder whether my hands-off approach may be detrimental to vibration damping.
I trek too and use one of these http://www.walkstool.com/
folded I strap it to my camera bag, and have tripod and scope over my shoulder.
I don't do tens of kilometres, of course, not with a tripod and scope. This stool does not add that much.
DanC.Licks
AKA Daniel Bradley
That is exactly the one I have. I cary my scope, tripod, camera and stool in a 70 liter backpack. Easy to carry, sets up in seconds. I even carry it riding my (racing) bike. Hands off wouldn't work for me. Need to track and focus too much.
Do you have the newer rubber feets? You still sink through soft and muddy soil, but not as fast ;-)
DanC.Licks
AKA Daniel Bradley
No, it just has rubber caps, and I often have to dig them out of the mud. I am going to get some crutch feet to go on it when I get around to it. Those I will glue on or fix them with a screw or something.
DanC.Licks
AKA Daniel Bradley
Crappy weather and no birds, so I have had some time to do some more testing. I find now that the images I get with the Oly E-30 on my SW80/600 are in fact better with the IS ON, even locked down. The tests were done using AntiShake (mirror up 10 seconds before release) and a wireless remote. Not a huge difference, but noticeable.
The other interesting thing is that the images from the E-30 have more contrast and more detail than the images taken with the Nikon D7000, albeit a tad noisier, even at ISO 400. At 1600 the Nik is better and at 3200, forget the E-30. In the end, I would have to say that the Olympus images are more satisfactory at low ISO, but the Nik still goes strong at 3200. PP required, naturally.
The other interesting thing is that the images from the E-30 have more contrast and more detail than the images taken with the Nikon D7000, albeit a tad noisier, even at ISO 400. At 1600 the Nik is better and at 3200, forget the E-30. In the end, I would have to say that the Olympus images are more satisfactory at low ISO, but the Nik still goes strong at 3200. PP required, naturally.
Dan
Thanks for the information. It confirms what I have been experiencing with my E510. I haven't thought about mirror lockup and whether that will improve IQ. Here is a question--if you trigger the Liveview mode on the camera the mirror flips up enabling the sensor to receive light and the LCD to display. If you trigger the shutter release during Liveview does the mirror drop back down then up again for the exposure? Rich
Thanks for the information. It confirms what I have been experiencing with my E510. I haven't thought about mirror lockup and whether that will improve IQ. Here is a question--if you trigger the Liveview mode on the camera the mirror flips up enabling the sensor to receive light and the LCD to display. If you trigger the shutter release during Liveview does the mirror drop back down then up again for the exposure? Rich
DanC.Licks
AKA Daniel Bradley
Hi Rich,
You have it right.
I use live view for focusing only, and I exit live view to take the shot. If you stay in live view and hit the release, the shutter closes, the mirror flips back down, the exposure sensor measures the light, the mirror flips up again and the shutter goes off. If you use AntiShake, (mirror up in Nikoneese) there is a delay (adjustable) before the shutter goes off so that all vibration from the mirror has died down. It is only practical for test shots or for something stationary where a hands off approach will work.
I only use Live View for test shots and für macro, otherwise everything through the finder.
You have it right.
I use live view for focusing only, and I exit live view to take the shot. If you stay in live view and hit the release, the shutter closes, the mirror flips back down, the exposure sensor measures the light, the mirror flips up again and the shutter goes off. If you use AntiShake, (mirror up in Nikoneese) there is a delay (adjustable) before the shutter goes off so that all vibration from the mirror has died down. It is only practical for test shots or for something stationary where a hands off approach will work.
I only use Live View for test shots and für macro, otherwise everything through the finder.
Tord
Well-known member
Hi,
I did some tests on this subject some 2 years ago, inspired by the method developed by J. Andrzej Wrotniak. In his tests he came to conclusion that the IS gives 1 to 2 EV advantage.
Essentially the test is setup by shooting a sequence of pictures of a subject and assessing the sharpness of each picture (or if you prefer, assessing the shake blur). Prerequisites: subject is in focus, which you secure with tripod, using the liveview and then locking the focus.
The subject can be arbitrary. I used a printout of a resolution chart.
What you do is to shoot a sequence of pictures, single frame mode. Repeat the procedure for a number of exposure times, covering a suitable range of shutter speeds that will cover from "all blurred" to "all sharp". For instance 1/60s, 1/125s, 1/250s, 1/500s, 1/1000s. (Since the scope has no diaphragm you need to adjust the ISO).
Next assess each frame on your computer from a sharpness point of view against a reference that you regard as sharp by your standards. The ratio of sharp frames / total frames gives the probability of getting a sharp picture. To avoid getting biased by knowing the shutter speed you should inspect the frames in random order. If you have time repeat the inspection procedure to level out subjective perception.
Repeat the procedure with IS and without IS.
Log the results in a spreadsheet and have the spreadsheet SW present the results as a graph where the tests with and without IS are aligned.
The distance between the slopes give an indication of the advantage provided by the IS.
(Needless to say?) When doing the test with the scope on tripod, one must non lock the tripod head. Instead the head should be loosened as in normal mode of operation, as if you were framing the subject and pressing the shutter while holding the camera body.
In the attached examples where I tested the effect of the E-630 IS, handheld and monopod at 420mm. The distance between the dark blue and pink curve is in the order of 1EV. Same goes for the The test was conducted with 10 samples for each exposure time, which may be too few samples and explaining the deviations. I also remember light conditions were somewhat changing while I was shooting.
What more does the graph tell us? At 420mm (840mm 35 mm equivalent on 35mm system)
Handheld you need close to 1/1000s for high keeper rate handheld. In line with what I expected
With IS engaged, you can shoot at 1/500s with high success rate
On a monopod and IS, 1/125 should be fast enough
Forget about shutter speeds 1/30 or slower
I also did assessment for "sharp" and "acceptable" sharpness (according to my standards). Standards may vary between people but as long as you define a standard and stickto it during the assessment it does not impact the result of the test.
Maybe I should do the test for the SW80? I have a feeling you need around 1/125 or faster, and that the IS gives 1EV advantage.
Sorry for long post.
/Tord
I did some tests on this subject some 2 years ago, inspired by the method developed by J. Andrzej Wrotniak. In his tests he came to conclusion that the IS gives 1 to 2 EV advantage.
Essentially the test is setup by shooting a sequence of pictures of a subject and assessing the sharpness of each picture (or if you prefer, assessing the shake blur). Prerequisites: subject is in focus, which you secure with tripod, using the liveview and then locking the focus.
The subject can be arbitrary. I used a printout of a resolution chart.
What you do is to shoot a sequence of pictures, single frame mode. Repeat the procedure for a number of exposure times, covering a suitable range of shutter speeds that will cover from "all blurred" to "all sharp". For instance 1/60s, 1/125s, 1/250s, 1/500s, 1/1000s. (Since the scope has no diaphragm you need to adjust the ISO).
Next assess each frame on your computer from a sharpness point of view against a reference that you regard as sharp by your standards. The ratio of sharp frames / total frames gives the probability of getting a sharp picture. To avoid getting biased by knowing the shutter speed you should inspect the frames in random order. If you have time repeat the inspection procedure to level out subjective perception.
Repeat the procedure with IS and without IS.
Log the results in a spreadsheet and have the spreadsheet SW present the results as a graph where the tests with and without IS are aligned.
The distance between the slopes give an indication of the advantage provided by the IS.
(Needless to say?) When doing the test with the scope on tripod, one must non lock the tripod head. Instead the head should be loosened as in normal mode of operation, as if you were framing the subject and pressing the shutter while holding the camera body.
In the attached examples where I tested the effect of the E-630 IS, handheld and monopod at 420mm. The distance between the dark blue and pink curve is in the order of 1EV. Same goes for the The test was conducted with 10 samples for each exposure time, which may be too few samples and explaining the deviations. I also remember light conditions were somewhat changing while I was shooting.
What more does the graph tell us? At 420mm (840mm 35 mm equivalent on 35mm system)
Handheld you need close to 1/1000s for high keeper rate handheld. In line with what I expected
With IS engaged, you can shoot at 1/500s with high success rate
On a monopod and IS, 1/125 should be fast enough
Forget about shutter speeds 1/30 or slower
I also did assessment for "sharp" and "acceptable" sharpness (according to my standards). Standards may vary between people but as long as you define a standard and stickto it during the assessment it does not impact the result of the test.
Maybe I should do the test for the SW80? I have a feeling you need around 1/125 or faster, and that the IS gives 1EV advantage.
Sorry for long post.
/Tord
DanC.Licks
AKA Daniel Bradley
I simply set up the shot, popped off 5 each, selected the best of each group, and compared them. Repeated the process several times to be sure. Very unscientific, but enough to see which works better.
Tord
Well-known member
Same here.
And at occasion when shooting angle does not allow shooting through viewfinder (eg overhead)
