Join for FREE
It only takes a minute!
Magnifying the passion for nature. Zeiss Victory Harpia 95. New!

Welcome to BirdForum.
BirdForum is the net's largest birding community, dedicated to wild birds and birding, and is absolutely FREE! You are most welcome to register for an account, which allows you to take part in lively discussions in the forum, post your pictures in the gallery and more.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread
Old Sunday 26th February 2017, 18:24   #1
MrBitsy
Registered User

 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Bedford
Posts: 58
Blog Entries: 5
20-60 or 25-50 eyepiece?

I recently posted about my new 8.5x42 Swarosvski binocular purchase. Being blown away with them, I have now upgraded my scope to a Swarosvski ATS80 HD scope. Really superb scope in all respects, particularly blown away with the colour they pull in!

I purchased them with a 20-60 zoom eyepiece after several hours testing against the 25-50. My choice was down to a perception the 20-60 was sharper and easier to focus to the 'sweet spot'. Also I was worried at losing that last 10x of zoom for difficult to id birds at long range. However, a month later and I wondered if I had made the right choice, remembering the lovely FOV of the 25-50.

So I purchased the 25-50 after reading many good reviews on here, but after weeks of comparison my original thought was confirmed - the 25-50 seems to be more difficult to focus to that 'sweet spot'. Heat distortion also seems more apparent to me, leading to a satisfactory focus with the 20-60 but 'focus hunting' in the same conditions with the 25-50 zoom.

I wear glasses so could this be a factor in the apparent harder to focus succesfully with the 25-50? is there a technical reason why I am perceiving this focus difference?

I will sell one of the lenses, but am finding the decision difficult. The wide FOV of the 25-50 has lead to really great views of small birds close in because of the ease in spotting them. however, at further distances, like water birds at far side of a lake, the 20-60 zoom gives a perceived sharper image
MrBitsy is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Monday 27th February 2017, 01:15   #2
safaridreaming
Registered User

 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 104
hey mate, congratulations on your recent upgrade, you've got a formidable set of optics with the 8.5x bins and the ATS scope...

That being said, I'm in the same boat as you - i've always had the 25-50x eyepiece with my ATS 80 (current generation) and I'm struggling with eye placement. I get a lot of kidney beaning and blackouts and I've played with eyecup adjustments etc to no avail...

Focusing for me isn't the issue - its just that if I dont get my eye placement just right, i dont get a clear FOV..

To be clear - image clarity, resolution, colour rendition etc isn't the problem as you've noted, the scope is superb in these respects...

Your post reminded me that there is the option of the 20-60x eyepiece before I start thinking about something more radical i.e. selling this scope for another brand (at the moment I'm mildly entertaining the thought of the Kowa TSN-883 with 20-60x eyepiece).

i'm looking forward to some of the responses with respect to the 25-50x vs the 20-60x because by all the accounts I've read, the 25-50x is significant step up in both sharpness and flat field compared to the 20-60x...

cheers
Jeelan

PS I also had a Zeiss Diascope (current version) with the 20-75x eyepiece and the "comfort" factor in using that eyepiece vs the Swaro is day/night.... The down side on the Zeiss is FC and CA are more apparent in outer 20% of the field...
safaridreaming is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Tuesday 28th February 2017, 09:16   #3
MrBitsy
Registered User

 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Bedford
Posts: 58
Blog Entries: 5
A very disappointing day today with the 25-50. FOV lovely, but I just can't get a good focus. Just when I think I'm getting to a good focus, it gets blurry out the other side. I don't think it is my lens as I had the same issue when testing at the original shop with a different lens.

Swapping over to the 20-60, I immediately get pin sharp focus at all zoom levels!
MrBitsy is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Tuesday 28th February 2017, 12:02   #4
safaridreaming
Registered User

 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrBitsy View Post
A very disappointing day today with the 25-50. FOV lovely, but I just can't get a good focus. Just when I think I'm getting to a good focus, it gets blurry out the other side. I don't think it is my lens as I had the same issue when testing at the original shop with a different lens.

Swapping over to the 20-60, I immediately get pin sharp focus at all zoom levels!
Could you have a faulty eyepiece? Is it an option to send it in to Swarovski to get checked out?

Whilst I have issues with eye placement, I've never had any issues bringing objects into sharp focus relatively easily...

sometimes when looking through heat haze or heat shimmer i'll move the focus ring back and forth a couple of times to be sure i've got the sharpest focus, but once its dialled in, the view is great...

cheers
Jeelan
safaridreaming is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Friday 3rd March 2017, 19:36   #5
Fedster
Registered User

 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Helsinki
Posts: 37
I tried both the 20-60x and 25-50x on both the 65 and 80. I personally disliked the 20-60x because I found it too much like looking down a pipe. I find the FOV of the 25-50x OK, but more FOV is always welcome, to the point I am toying with the idea of getting the fixed eyepieces. I have had 0 issues with my 25-50x in terms of focusing and finding the correct eye placement, and in fact I can use it with or without the eyecup twisted up or down equally easily. This is obviously just my experience, so I recommend testing before buying!
Fedster is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Saturday 4th March 2017, 08:54   #6
aylward_j
Registered User

 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: London, UK
Posts: 19
My experience was the same as Fedster's with the 20-60x on the 65.

I've only used the 25-50x on the 80 and found that much better. Though even with the latter, as a spectacle wearer, I found the eye relief a bit short in some of the zoom range. This could make eye placement a little tough.

Upshot was that I often reverted to the fixed mag combo I'd used with the 65mm scope, i.e. the 30x & 45x both of which were a joy to use.
aylward_j is offline  
Reply With Quote

BF Supporter 2009 2010 2011 2015 2016 2017 Support BirdForum With A Donation

Old Saturday 4th March 2017, 09:34   #7
amears
Registered User

 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Bath, Somerset
Posts: 314
V interesting thread. I'd agree with the eye placement problem, that's the one disappointment I've had with my 80mm but after swapping from 20/60 to 25/50, I didn't notice a big deterioration. Maybe I didn't compare carefully enough. I'm now used to it and don't really notice however.

You now have me thinking that on a seawatch, where comfort and ease of viewing are really important, I might be better off with a fixed mag eyepiece... but that's also a prime time when a wide field of view and a zoom option are at their most valuable - can't win perhaps.
amears is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Saturday 4th March 2017, 09:42   #8
Sancho
Registered User
 
Sancho's Avatar

 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Ireland
Posts: 8,475
I used to have the ATS80HD with 20-60. I switched over to 25-50 for the wider FOV, and had no 'issues' (once I'd got used to the slightly trickier eye-placement). Very sharp, wide, comfortable. I think you should get that ep checked out. (Eventually I became dissatisfied with the 50x top mag for seawatching, sold the scope, and ended up finally with a Meopta Meostar S2HD82 and 30-60x, thereby solving all problems!)
Sancho is offline  
Reply With Quote

BF Supporter 2007 2008 2009 2010 2011 2012 2013 2014 2015 2016 2017 Support BirdForum With A Donation

Old Saturday 4th March 2017, 10:53   #9
Vespobuteo
Registered User

 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Utopia
Posts: 1,669
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sancho View Post
I used to have the ATS80HD with 20-60. I switched over to 25-50 for the wider FOV, and had no 'issues' (once I'd got used to the slightly trickier eye-placement). Very sharp, wide, comfortable. I think you should get that ep checked out. (Eventually I became dissatisfied with the 50x top mag for seawatching, sold the scope, and ended up finally with a Meopta Meostar S2HD82 and 30-60x, thereby solving all problems!)
The Meopta S2 seems to get good reviews everywhere, did you try the 20-70x? Impressive range there would be nice in some situations (large exit pupil in low light, and high mag for long distance).

Do you use the scope with eye glasses? ER is better than on the Swaro 25-50x?
How is the focus wheel in the Meopta? Can you turn it with just one finger?

Getting the 25-50x Swaro EP to work with glasses was a bit tricky for me in the beginning, now it works quite ok, in the store trying I always seemed to get blackouts etc. but the ATX was not much better, or even a bit worse (though, the special eye cup with low rim did help).
I seem to use the 25-50x at either 25x or 50x as the ER reaches max at that magnifications.

The Kowa 25-60x EP is IMO a bit more comfortable, but I'm not fond of Kowa's top mounted focuser, feels a bit finicky to me, but I guess you get used to it.

Last edited by Vespobuteo : Saturday 4th March 2017 at 11:05.
Vespobuteo is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Saturday 4th March 2017, 12:06   #10
Adam W
Registered User
 
Adam W's Avatar

 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: sunderland
Posts: 4,737
Each to their own I suppose but I bought mine with the 30x wide as at the time only the 20-60x existed and I really wasn't impressed by it at all but I got the 25-50x when it came out and I've used it happily ever since with no problems and I wear glasses.
Adam W is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Sunday 5th March 2017, 13:01   #11
Sancho
Registered User
 
Sancho's Avatar

 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Ireland
Posts: 8,475
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vespobuteo View Post
The Meopta S2 seems to get good reviews everywhere, did you try the 20-70x? Impressive range there would be nice in some situations (large exit pupil in low light, and high mag for long distance).

Do you use the scope with eye glasses? ER is better than on the Swaro 25-50x?
How is the focus wheel in the Meopta? Can you turn it with just one finger?

Getting the 25-50x Swaro EP to work with glasses was a bit tricky for me in the beginning, now it works quite ok, in the store trying I always seemed to get blackouts etc. but the ATX was not much better, or even a bit worse (though, the special eye cup with low rim did help).
I seem to use the 25-50x at either 25x or 50x as the ER reaches max at that magnifications.

The Kowa 25-60x EP is IMO a bit more comfortable, but I'm not fond of Kowa's top mounted focuser, feels a bit finicky to me, but I guess you get used to it.
I haven't tried the 25-70x. I don't wear glasses anymore, ER isn't an issue. Focus wheel is smooth with one finger once I'd abandoned the Stay-On Case. (I disliked the Swaro SOC also...helical focussers 'rub' off the cases). The S2 has significant Rolling Ball at lower mag, but it doesn't bother me, and probably wouldn't bother most users, as you don't 'scan' with a scope in quite the same way as you do with bins. I compared the S2 with an ATX85 and thought they were optically equal.
Sancho is offline  
Reply With Quote

BF Supporter 2007 2008 2009 2010 2011 2012 2013 2014 2015 2016 2017 Support BirdForum With A Donation

Advertisement
Reply


Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Eyepiece Help Ridge Walker Spotting Scopes & tripod/heads 0 Tuesday 28th January 2014 13:12

{googleads}

Fatbirder's Top 1000 Birding Websites

Help support BirdForum

Page generated in 0.16363001 seconds with 20 queries
All times are GMT. The time now is 00:25.