Swarovski ATS 80 25-50 W vs 20-60 vs ATX 85 (1 Viewer)

[DWStone]

Hello all, first time posting - apologies if this has been discussed/answered previously, if there is a previous thread anyone can link to, I would very much appreciate a comment with a link to the discussion!

I am considering upgrading from a Vortex Razor HD 85 to a Swarovski scope and would like some advice/pointers, and some of the pros and cons of both the ATS with either the 25-50 W / 20-60 eyepieces vs the ATX 85 (other than the cost!). I will mostly be using the scope for IDing/tracking birds in flight up to 2km away for surveying and guiding work and may also consider some digiscoping with a Canon DSLR.

As I understand it, the 25-50 has a wider FOV than the 20-60 on the ATS, but the ATX has the same wide FOV as the 25-50, but with greater magnifiation? Is there a considerable weight difference between these models? I will occasionally be doing a bit of trekking with the scope, but the weight isn't a deal breaker if the difference is negligible - image quality is more important overall.

I generally wear eyeglasses for mild astigmatism, so the best option for eyeglasses wear would be good, but it is not a deal breaker as I can get by without if required.

I would also appreciate anyone's input on tripods - I currently use a Manfrotto 190XPro with Manfrotto 128RC head and I am wondering if the £700 pricetag on the Swarovski tripods + £400 head is justified??

Thanks in advance for taking the time to read and for any input anyone can offer!

 

[KC Foggin]

I'm just going to jump in here and wish you a warm welcome from those of us on staff here at BirdForum
We're glad you found us and please join in wherever you like

You should be getting some suggestions soon as we've got a load of scope geniuses

 

[Vespobuteo]

Hello all, first time posting - apologies if this has been discussed/answered previously, if there is a previous thread anyone can link to, I would very much appreciate a comment with a link to the discussion!

I am considering upgrading from a Vortex Razor HD 85 to a Swarovski scope and would like some advice/pointers, and some of the pros and cons of both the ATS with either the 25-50 W / 20-60 eyepieces vs the ATX 85 (other than the cost!). I will mostly be using the scope for IDing/tracking birds in flight up to 2km away for surveying and guiding work and may also consider some digiscoping with a Canon DSLR.

As I understand it, the 25-50 has a wider FOV than the 20-60 on the ATS, but the ATX has the same wide FOV as the 25-50, but with greater magnifiation? Is there a considerable weight difference between these models? I will occasionally be doing a bit of trekking with the scope, but the weight isn't a deal breaker if the difference is negligible - image quality is more important overall.

I generally wear eyeglasses for mild astigmatism, so the best option for eyeglasses wear would be good, but it is not a deal breaker as I can get by without if required.

I would also appreciate anyone's input on tripods - I currently use a Manfrotto 190XPro with Manfrotto 128RC head and I am wondering if the £700 pricetag on the Swarovski tripods + £400 head is justified??

Thanks in advance for taking the time to read and for any input anyone can offer!

Google works fine for bird forum, I found this:

ATX - ATS difference

Hi all, I'm still trying to choose a scope!! Is the difference in quality worth the extra money between the ATX85 and ATS80? I really can't see that i would change modules around so the only advantage to me unless there was a real difference in optical clarity!? is that it would be easier to...

www.birdforum.net

Search tip in Google, type: "site:birdforum.net ATX 85 vs ATS80"

 

[Tringa45]

Hi,

Welcome too. Trekking and digiscoping really pose conflicting requirements. There are many here, who favour the use of a compact scope of moderate magnification for the former, but the latter demands aperture and a stable tripod and head combination with inevitable weight penalties.

As regards scopes, you will have to try for yourself what offers the desired improvement over the Vortex, and it might be advisable to conduct a star test (explained several times on the forum) as there is some sample variation on even the most expensive models.

For tripods and heads look at some of the threads on the sub-forum.
The Manfrotto 190X is much too vibration-prone for use with a large scope and a 128 head I once owned was incapable of holding my Kowa 883 at 45° tilt without creep, when pointed at the night sky.

The scope manufacturers have a history of offering inferior tripods and heads at inflated prices. There is much better value to be obtained by buying from one or more of the specialist manufacturers, as compatibility between heads and tripods is almost never a problem.

John

 

[forent]

(...) The scope manufacturers have a history of offering inferior tripods and heads at inflated prices. (...)

Dead on. I couldn't have said this better myself.

 

[SurreyAlan]

I have a similar conundrum wanting to upgrade from an ancient RSPB scope and tripod. Having purchased some Swarovski binoculars last year I'd like to stay with the brand, I've peered through countless ATS models but not the ATX. Weight is important so in either it would be the 65mm. Most dealers seem to have sold out but I called a Premier Swarovski dealer with stock and spoke to someone who seemed to have even less knowledge than me. The ATX is favourite as I suspect the performance would be better for a small 180 g weight penalty and I can always give the heavier half to the wife to carry.

I'm then looking for a tripod, the Kite Ardea CF at 1450 gms with 3 section carbon fibre legs ?? Is this OK, I haven't found anything similar under 2 kgs.
As for a head, I really want to avoid a mounting plate so would prefer a head that accepts the Arca on the scope directly, there's the Swarovski CTH head which I gather is the same as the Gitzo GHF2W bar some cosmetic differences.

Finally, digiscoping, The TLS APO seems to vary hugely in price, 299 to 439+. We have a Canon EOS 50, this is an APS-C camera and I believe the 30mm is correct for this. On another thread it seems that the Swarovski T2 adaptor for Canon is for the EF mount ie the full frame, the Canon's with APS-C are the EF-M mount so you need to source an EF to EF-M adaptor (which I do have). However, if the TLS-APO is a standard T42 42x0.75 then a T42 to EF-M mount is an easy find on the internet. The premier Swarovski dealer was totally lost at this point without a clue, when it's a store run by birders for birders that was a little disappointing, I really felt they'd agree with anything I said.

Though we've always talked to people about their scopes we never have about tripods and heads yet it's a very important part of the equation and there is so much choice.

 

[Vespobuteo]

I have a similar conundrum wanting to upgrade from an ancient RSPB scope and tripod. Having purchased some Swarovski binoculars last year I'd like to stay with the brand, I've peered through countless ATS models but not the ATX. Weight is important so in either it would be the 65mm. Most dealers seem to have sold out but I called a Premier Swarovski dealer with stock and spoke to someone who seemed to have even less knowledge than me. The ATX is favourite as I suspect the performance would be better for a small 180 g weight penalty and I can always give the heavier half to the wife to carry.

I'm then looking for a tripod, the Kite Ardea CF at 1450 gms with 3 section carbon fibre legs ?? Is this OK, I haven't found anything similar under 2 kgs.
As for a head, I really want to avoid a mounting plate so would prefer a head that accepts the Arca on the scope directly, there's the Swarovski CTH head which I gather is the same as the Gitzo GHF2W bar some cosmetic differences.

Finally, digiscoping, The TLS APO seems to vary hugely in price, 299 to 439+. We have a Canon EOS 50, this is an APS-C camera and I believe the 30mm is correct for this. On another thread it seems that the Swarovski T2 adaptor for Canon is for the EF mount ie the full frame, the Canon's with APS-C are the EF-M mount so you need to source an EF to EF-M adaptor (which I do have). However, if the TLS-APO is a standard T42 42x0.75 then a T42 to EF-M mount is an easy find on the internet. The premier Swarovski dealer was totally lost at this point without a clue, when it's a store run by birders for birders that was a little disappointing, I really felt they'd agree with anything I said.

Though we've always talked to people about their scopes we never have about tripods and heads yet it's a very important part of the equation and there is so much choice.

The Kite Ardea CF is probably fine (if your not very tall), 3-section is usually a bit more stable than 4-section.
It's China made so if it will work in 25 years like my oldest Gitzo still do is hard to say...

Avoiding a mounting plate seems very reasonable!

The GITZO GHF2W is a good fit for a smaller scope like the ATX65 (or even ATX85).

If you want something even more stable you have to go bigger (= heavier) but I don't think that is needed unless you intend to get the ATX95 or 105...

 

[forent]

The Gitzo GHF2W is an excellent choice even for an 80+ scope. The Kite tripod seems to be one of these 1,001 inexpensive chinese carbon tripods with probably 26 or 28mm leg diameter that you can find under different brand names everywhere. That's not to say it is lacking anything - I have not touched this special model so I won't comment on this.
What I know and can recommend is the Leofoto Ranger LS-323C (Ranger LS-323C). I own the slightly beefier LS-364C (fantastic!) and have also tried the former. The 323C is similar in weight and size to the Kite but provides 32mm legs and has no center column - some love/need them, but I in person hate center columns. The maximum height of 152cm is easily sufficient even for very tall people if you use an angled scope.

 

[forent]

BTW, here you can see the Gitzo GHF2W with a Swarovski ATX 95. Works like a charm:

Novoflex TrioPod Modular Tripod System

Some months ago I purchased a Novoflex TrioPod as a lighter alternative to my Sirui M-3204. I was also attracted by Novoflex' standard of manufacturing, which in my opinion is unequalled in this sector. Heart of the tripod is the TrioPod base, actually the apex, which has three leg stubs...

www.birdforum.net

 

[SurreyAlan]

Many thanks for that, have I ever used the centre column, I don't think I have as always adjusted on the legs. It's one more bit for play to creep in so I'm happy to not have it.. The Leofoto looks interesting and their web site actually gives specifications unlike many others. Does look like that would give me a more robust base. Rather like the separate spikes, something else I've never used.
Though I prefer the controls on the Gitzo head I might yet opt for the Swarovski version as I've seen quite a few comments the Gitzo is a good deal heavier at 800g than the 590 claimed, the Swarovski is supposedly 570 g. The on line retailer descriptions talk about it being made of carbon but close up photos look like it's made of the same magnesium castings as the Gitzo just with a different finish.

 

[SurreyAlan]

On the digiscoping and camera adaptor, I've had a reply from Swarovski who I also think don't understand that mounts for a Canon EOS camera and a Canon full frame camera are different as they think the same adaptor will fit both.

 

[forent]

Thanks for your kind answer!

Design aside the Gitzo GHF2W and the "Swarovski" CTH are plain identical. The considerable weight difference you mentioned must be an error on their web page or similar.

Concerning the Canon bayonet: The female (= camera) side of the EF-S mount is different from the female EF mount in EOS full frame bodies only by the fact that it does accept not only lenses and adaptors with a male EF mount but additionally the Canon APS-C lenses with (male) EF-S mounts. These do not fit Canon full frame DSLRs like the Canon EOS 5D III. Your EOS 50D is an APS-C DSLR because of the smaller sensor and it will accept each and every proper EF or EF-S lens, adaptor, scope attachment etc. (Otherwise, you could not use full frame EF lenses like e.g. the Canon EF 4.5-5.6/100-400L with your APS-C body. But that works fine, of course.) Hence, there is no need for Swarovski or any other maker to offer different Canon DSLR adaptors.

 

[SurreyAlan]

I've had a reply from Swarovski who have confirmed their adaptor is an EF mount. Think the confusion arises as my Canon is a EOS M50 model and the mount is a lot smaller than the EF, just taken my EF and EF-M lenses out and the difference is substantial hence I have an adaptor to fit the EF lenses to my EF-M camera, , however, I can get a T42 to my EF-M mount very easily. Otherwise everything is ordered bar the tripod which will be a Leofoto, probably the smaller one. Many thanks for all the help.

 

[4 The Birds1]

Hi Alan

just a comment regarding plates:

It is of course attractive to fit the scope foot straight onto the tripod head, but this is only practical if your scope is well balanced. Even for a scope in its native state (without anything attached) this is not always the case. For example see here: Tripod recommendations .
Whether you are starting out with a balanced scope or not - once you attach a camera to it, the ensemble will become distinctly back-heavy and you will definitely need to use a long plate or a balance rail in order to restore equilibrium.

Good luck!

Achim

 

[forent]

I've had a reply from Swarovski who have confirmed their adaptor is an EF mount. Think the confusion arises as my Canon is a EOS M50 model and the mount is a lot smaller than the EF, just taken my EF and EF-M lenses out and the difference is substantial hence I have an adaptor to fit the EF lenses to my EF-M camera, , however, I can get a T42 to my EF-M mount very easily. Otherwise everything is ordered bar the tripod which will be a Leofoto, probably the smaller one. Many thanks for all the help.

I see! My fault, I misconceived your initial description "Canon EOS 50" as Canon EOS 50D, an ancient APS-C DSLR, and not as the current Canon EOS M50 DSLM.

Reg. tripod: A smaller legset is always alluring but I knew quite well why I emphasized the 32mm leg diameter. Thinner, smaller and lighter unfortunately always means more wobble and vibrations. So try before you buy!

 

[DWStone]

Thanks everyone for their comments on the thread so far, very much appreciated! Apologies for the tardy response, been working rurally with very little in the way of reliable internet to access much online. I think I've narrowed it down to either the ATX or ATS with 25-50W, just need to find a retailer to get in and try both of these in person, though I fear the cost may be the determining factor in the end, so l think the ATS is just edging it at this point! Tripods perhaps a bit more research to do from my side before making a decision, and thanks to Tringa45 for the links on that front.

 

[SurreyAlan]

From October 3 you'll have a further choice of the ATC/STC 17-40x56 which is a lot smaller and lighter than both and I think will be £1820 (subject to change)

ATC/STC

Thought out in the minutest detail, the compact spotting scope impresses with its intuitive operation.

www.swarovskioptik.com

 

[Bill Atwood]

A little late to the party, but you may want to check out the Meopta MeoStar S2 82mm if you have the chance. There's the standard 20-70x eyepiece and a 30-60x wide angle.

 

[SurreyAlan]

The T42 to EOS-M adaptor arrived yesterday and at £11 incl p&p the cheapest part of the kit. While the TLS APO cost a fortune even buying it at a much reduced price it is very easy to use just slipping on and off. Weather preventing much of a play but have already noticed the depth of field, taking pictures and videos of a redwood a very long way away as the wind blows and the branch moves it drifts in and out of focus, will be interesting to see the quality on birds perhaps a bit closer than the tree.

 

[redbird man]

Hello all, first time posting - apologies if this has been discussed/answered previously, if there is a previous thread anyone can link to, I would very much appreciate a comment with a link to the discussion!

I am considering upgrading from a Vortex Razor HD 85 to a Swarovski scope and would like some advice/pointers, and some of the pros and cons of both the ATS with either the 25-50 W / 20-60 eyepieces vs the ATX 85 (other than the cost!). I will mostly be using the scope for IDing/tracking birds in flight up to 2km away for surveying and guiding work and may also consider some digiscoping with a Canon DSLR.

As I understand it, the 25-50 has a wider FOV than the 20-60 on the ATS, but the ATX has the same wide FOV as the 25-50, but with greater magnifiation? Is there a considerable weight difference between these models? I will occasionally be doing a bit of trekking with the scope, but the weight isn't a deal breaker if the difference is negligible - image quality is more important overall.

I generally wear eyeglasses for mild astigmatism, so the best option for eyeglasses wear would be good, but it is not a deal breaker as I can get by without if required.

I would also appreciate anyone's input on tripods - I currently use a Manfrotto 190XPro with Manfrotto 128RC head and I am wondering if the £700 pricetag on the Swarovski tripods + £400 head is justified??

Thanks in advance for taking the time to read and for any input anyone can offer!