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Old Wednesday 1st November 2017, 16:15   #1
yakyakgoose
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Maven s.1 80mm or Nikon ED82a ?

I have the opportunity to buy one of these and I'm getting confused on the lens types each claim to have with a fluorite lens in the Maven and Nikons "Extra Low Dispersion" glass. Which one has better glass?
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Old Wednesday 1st November 2017, 18:06   #2
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I dont know which scope uses the best glass..I know nikon ED glass is good,because their scopes are well corrected for CA..They advertise using Extra Low Dispersion glass and that is correct ,,on the other hand,Maven likes Hyper Hyped advertising ,so their Magnesium-polymer frame is POST SPACE AGE,and their objectives are made of Fluorite Glass,..This in itself is pure marketing,because the glass might contain fluoride in the composition,but no thing as fluorite glass really exists,as a class or type of glass..So,in my opinion,based in their marketing,Maven is trying to sell themselves as something better than what they really are.This can only be with one intention..OVERCHARGE YOU..Keep also in mind that this scopes are not made by Maven,but produced for them for a manufacturer that sells,or sold the same model for other brands,some of them already discontinued and forgotten.Some members of the forum have tested different units of the same scope ,with different brands,and I think quality control is not consistent with post space age standards..so go figure...on the other hand, Nikon Fieldscopes have achieved a classic status of proven value
my opinion

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Old Wednesday 1st November 2017, 19:21   #3
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Don't know about the Maven, but five years of experience with the ed82a (with MC 30x ep) has been a joy. I know zooms take centre stage these days but the fixed 30x gives such a beautiful view that I don't think I'll be looking for anything else for a long, long time. Hope this one-sided view is of some assistance.
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Old Wednesday 1st November 2017, 20:28   #4
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Originally Posted by yakyakgoose View Post
I have the opportunity to buy one of these and I'm getting confused on the lens types each claim to have with a fluorite lens in the Maven and Nikons "Extra Low Dispersion" glass. Which one has better glass?
Do you mind telling us what this Maven opportunity will cost you ? I ask because some here including myself have owned what appears to be the same scope in appearance that has been now discontinued. This scope also advertised the same attributes but fell short in its ability to live up to its promises and ended up selling for a fraction of what I last saw the Maven website asking for their scopes. When I say a fraction of the cost, in my case I spent less than $400. for a scope that looked exactly like the Maven.
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Old Wednesday 1st November 2017, 20:48   #5
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Hi,

as has been said, ED means extra low dispersion and is the correct technical term. Fluorite glass is wrong. There is either fluorite crystal (as used by Kowa in their top offerings and some makers of expensive astro scopes) or glass containing fluoride ions - that is ED glass, btw.

The Nikon fieldscope ED series are known for very good quality, the Maven has not been reviewed and some seem to know the model under a different name with so so results.

Take your pick.

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Joachim
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Old Thursday 2nd November 2017, 00:39   #6
yakyakgoose
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Ok, so I called Maven and had about a 20 minute conversation. I brought up my concerns about the different terms and was told that they are one of the few companies that use the florite crystal. They said them, Kowa, and some 60mm scope made by Zeiss were the only ones.

I also asked them about the similarities to Brunton and they said they did maintain some exterior similarities but the internals were completely different. I ask how and he said the Brunton one was only ed glass vs the Maven has the florite.

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Old Thursday 2nd November 2017, 08:22   #7
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Ok, so I called Maven and had about a 20 minute conversation. I brought up my concerns about the different terms and was told that they are one of the few companies that use the florite crystal. They said them, Kowa, and some 60mm scope made by Zeiss were the only ones.

I also asked them about the similarities to Brunton and they said they did maintain some exterior similarities but the internals were completely different. I ask how and he said the Brunton one was only ed glass vs the Maven has the florite.
That's very interesting. As I recall the Brunton was a very well built scope, at least the scope body was. As far as the zoom and I am not a big fan of zoom eyepieces, I decided to remove the zoom eyepiece and adapte a fixed power Pentax XW20 eyepiece to the Brunton scope body to see if a high end well proven eyepiece would take the Brunton scope to a different level then the original zoom with the same focal length setting . What I found was the Pentax eyepiece did indeed do exactly that, it was like looking thru a different scope. A member here now owns that Brunton scope with the adapted Pentax XW20 eyepiece. Now having said this, I would not purchase the Maven unless it could be returned or the price was at a level I could easily resell it and get back what I paid. The Plus to the purchase is Maven has gotten great praises here on this forum and others about their binoculars , so I suspect a Maven scope being sold at a reasonable price will get a lot of attention. I just checked and their is now a Maven scope being offered used on Ebay with about 5 Hrs left for under $800.

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Old Thursday 2nd November 2017, 09:54   #8
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Hi Yak, I had the Brunton 20x60x80 ED and I sold it on Ebay . I ended up buying a used Nikon 82ED angled and love it. The Brunton was ok. I will keep the Nikon 82ED. I also have the little Nikon 50ED and extra eyepieces. The fellow on Ebay that bought the Brunton on his feedback said "Came as said"
http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=341658

The Brunton spotter I had seemed to be made very well. It was not light wt. To be fair one of the reasons I sold the Brunton 80ED was that I purchased the Nikon 82ED spotter that I wanted in the first place.

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Old Thursday 2nd November 2017, 10:40   #9
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No experience with the Maven (or any of its clones) but I am a user of the ED82, and can only echo the comments of others here. I've previously had the following high end scopes - Leica APO 77 & 62, Swarovski 65HD, Kowa 823 and Optolyth 80HD and personally I feel the Nikon ED82 aces them all. I have also used mine against a friends Leica 80HD scope, and at 30x there is little difference in the image, with perhaps the Nikon being marginally brighter. The only limitation is the zoom, which I struggle with at the top end (difficult to obtain a sharp image in certain atmospheric conditions) and as a result of the short eye-relief. It is an incredible scope with the 30x DS eyepiece.
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Old Thursday 2nd November 2017, 11:00   #10
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Originally Posted by yakyakgoose View Post
Ok, so I called Maven and had about a 20 minute conversation. I brought up my concerns about the different terms and was told that they are one of the few companies that use the florite crystal. They said them, Kowa, and some 60mm scope made by Zeiss were the only ones.

I also asked them about the similarities to Brunton and they said they did maintain some exterior similarities but the internals were completely different. I ask how and he said the Brunton one was only ed glass vs the Maven has the florite.
"florite chrystal"? I doubt that. Fluorite crystal is expensive. Not sure why they would claim that. I guess they mean Fluoride glass. And in the end it's the result that counts, not the marketing terms. See review below.

CA seem to be good controlled but still a bit worse than Swaro ATX (ED/HD type glass), so not in the same level as scopes with "fluorite crystal" like Kowa Prominar 883.

http://www.rokslide.com/maven-s-1a-spotting-scope/

"Aberrations were well-corrected in the Maven. Even chromatic aberration was well corrected, although slight fringing was still visible when observing the high contrast resolution chart. In this area, the ATX was better corrected, but the difference was minor."

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Old Thursday 2nd November 2017, 11:17   #11
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Originally Posted by yakyakgoose View Post
Ok, so I called Maven and had about a 20 minute conversation. I brought up my concerns about the different terms and was told that they are one of the few companies that use the florite crystal. They said them, Kowa, and some 60mm scope made by Zeiss were the only ones.

I also asked them about the similarities to Brunton and they said they did maintain some exterior similarities but the internals were completely different. I ask how and he said the Brunton one was only ed glass vs the Maven has the florite.
yakyakgoose,

I would recommend treating both of these claims with high skepticism. I don't know where they got the idea that there is a 60mm Zeiss Fluorite scope.

There are easy objective tests that can determine whether an objective lens is glass or Fluorite crystal and whether two scopes have "completely different" internals. I'd be willing to do that if Maven would like to send me one of their scopes for review.

I've reviewed two of this family of Kamakura scopes (Zeiss Gavia and Brunton ICON). Here's a link to the Gavia review, which contains a link to the Brunton review:

http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=341423

The optical problems I found with the Brunton did not include chromatic aberration from the objective lens, which is extremely well corrected for chromatic, but not spherical aberration. Keep in mind that there are a few ED glass types, like Ohara FPL-53, that have the very same potential for correcting chromatic aberration as Fluorite.

Henry

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Old Thursday 2nd November 2017, 11:36   #12
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"florite chrystal"? I doubt that. Fluorite crystal is expensive. Not sure why they would claim that. And in the end it's the result that counts, not the marketing terms. See review below.

rl]http://www.rokslide.com/maven-s-1a-spotting-scope/[/url]

"
Pretty impressive review, but as said the zoom being attached(non removeable). For that kind of money there are many other high end spotters that can be had used & New. Personally I would not purchase any spotter or high end telescope unless it had other options for other eyepieces or at the least be able to remove the zoom & have the possibility of adapting other eyepieces yourself.

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Old Thursday 2nd November 2017, 12:03   #13
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I have the opportunity to buy one of these and I'm getting confused on the lens types each claim to have with a fluorite lens in the Maven and Nikons "Extra Low Dispersion" glass. Which one has better glass?
Is this a used or new Maven ? I ask because if you are trying to save money buying used, I see there is a seller on Ebay who is selling a Used Nikon EDG 85 angled with one eyepiece for $1599. The seller is a Japan vender. I have purchased from Japan venders thru Ebay & never had a problem buying used or new. The scope looks to be as advertised " In New Condition ". The eyepiece looks to be the 25x or 30x power. Both have very large oculars, very comfortable to use with glasses.
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Old Thursday 2nd November 2017, 12:48   #14
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The eBay one that you guys referenced was the one I was eyeballing but after being realistic with myself I'm having buyers remorse before I even buy it. I'm compromising on too many things and I'm not convinced it is what they say it is.

So now it's a question of what to get in the 80mm range. I currently have the Nikon Fieldscope 3 ed60 with the mc2 zoom lens. Planning on selling that and getting some change in my pocket. I found that I would really like better eye relief as I can be glassing for a few hours at a time. I'd also like something I could do very high quality digiscoping with a FF canon DSLR. Another thing I didn't like about the Maven was that it didn't have interchangeable eye pieces.

I could possibly swing 2k depending on how much I get for the Fieldscope but a little less would be great.
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Old Thursday 2nd November 2017, 13:00   #15
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Isn't the Cabela's Euro HD the same as the Meopta S.2?? You'll never beat this:

http://www.cabelas.com/product/hunti...1.uts?slotId=0
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Old Thursday 2nd November 2017, 13:32   #16
gcole
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The eBay one that you guys referenced was the one I was eyeballing but after being realistic with myself I'm having buyers remorse before I even buy it. I'm compromising on too many things and I'm not convinced it is what they say it is.

So now it's a question of what to get in the 80mm range. I currently have the Nikon Fieldscope 3 ed60 with the mc2 zoom lens. Planning on selling that and getting some change in my pocket. I found that I would really like better eye relief as I can be glassing for a few hours at a time. I'd also like something I could do very high quality digiscoping with a FF canon DSLR. Another thing I didn't like about the Maven was that it didn't have interchangeable eye pieces.

I could possibly swing 2k depending on how much I get for the Fieldscope but a little less would be great.
For me it was the Nikon EDG Field Scope, whether the 65 or 85 you will not find a larger variety of fixed eyepieces that offer such spectacular views with their huge ocular lens & giving such nice eye relief. If you buy a new EDG scope you will certainly blow that budget from us sellers but when buying used or new thru venders on Ebay(USA & Japan) its possible to stay within your budget. Remember just because one scope has a larger objective does not always guarantee a better view. When I bought my EDG scope used but in new condition, with the 3 new eyepieces from Japan & the Mr StarGuy astronomy bag new I stayed within $2,000. Be patient, keep looking those smart buys are out there, who knows the right buy just might come from one of us here on BirdForum.

Last edited by gcole : Thursday 2nd November 2017 at 13:42.
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Old Thursday 2nd November 2017, 13:51   #17
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[quote=chill6x6;3638520]Isn't the Cabela's Euro HD the same as the Meopta S.2?? You'll never beat this:

I totally agree .... The right smart buy just came up, for that price with Cabelas great return policy .... Its in your price range, with reviews that make this a pretty good bet you will be satisfied.
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Old Thursday 2nd November 2017, 13:52   #18
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Chill6x6 is essentially correct. The basic difference between the two is that Cabela's version comes with a non-removable 20-70X eyepiece. He is also quite correct in that it is a great bargain for a great scope.
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Old Thursday 2nd November 2017, 13:54   #19
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Isn't the Cabela's Euro HD the same as the Meopta S.2?? You'll never beat this:

http://www.cabelas.com/product/hunti...1.uts?slotId=0
If this had been the angled version I certainly would have pulled the trigger, the price is as low as the Meopta HD with the fixed zoom.
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Old Thursday 2nd November 2017, 14:02   #20
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Hi,

I have some doubts about the Maven having a fluorite crystal element in the objective - that would either mean that the whole lens assembly was built by Canon Optron (like for Kowa, Takahashi, Borg) or there's some new player on the market with the technology to do fluorite lenses.

The Cabela scope seems indeed to be a relabeled version of the Meopta S2 and the price is indeed very nice - it comes with the old 20-70 zoom fixed though and not with the 30-60 wide zoom. Otoh it costs in dollar roughly what we pay in euro for just the body, so one shouldn't be picky.

And there's only the straight version available...

Joachim

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Old Thursday 2nd November 2017, 14:08   #21
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The cabelas will whitout No doubt be better than both the Maven and the Nikon fieldscope. Tried them all, owning the meopta s2.
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Old Thursday 2nd November 2017, 14:15   #22
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That's a good catch on the cables but I'd really like to swap out eyepieces and at least a wide zoom:(

There seems to be all kinds of opinions on the new nikon:) I didn't see a wide zoom they made for it though. I wish someone else made the dual eyepiece swaro has on their real pricey line. That would fit my use case perfectly.

The Maven ended up going for 1125 btw in case anyone is curious.

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Old Thursday 2nd November 2017, 15:27   #23
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That's a good catch on the cables but I'd really like to swap out eyepieces and at least a wide zoom:(

There seems to be all kinds of opinions on the new nikon:) I didn't see a wide zoom they made for it though. I wish someone else made the dual eyepiece swaro has on their real pricey line. That would fit my use case perfectly.

The Maven ended up going for 1125 btw in case anyone is curious.
Well ... This saying always seem to pop up " You get what you pay for " and in the world of optics its proven to be true more times than not. Unfortunately good glass cost alot. When I told a friend what I paid for my last purchase, the Nikon EDG with all its goodies. I was reminded it cost me more than my first full size Chevy Malibu automobile which I purchased back in the fall of 1971. The way I figure it. To own one of the top end scopes with a resonable wide zoom with the most comfortable eye relief you are going to have to purchase in alphabetical order either a ..... Kowa 77 or 88 Prominar , A leica APO Televid, A Meopta S2 series, A Nikon EDG , Or the Latest & most expensive Swarovski ATX. The problem is these do not have a wide variety of fixed eyepieces with good eye relief accept the Nikon EDG. If you want those you will have to purchase the very pricey Nikon EDG FEP eyepieces. All of the above kills your budget. New or used ? , Like I said all of these can be purchased used a lot cheaper. .... Good Luck In Your Search and remember to browse the Forum classifies here.

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Old Friday 3rd November 2017, 00:46   #24
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I'm definitely going for the used market so hopefully that will help me out.

As a side note. I'm a member of a few various forums but the amount of help, expertise, and class here is heads and shoulders above what else I've seen.
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Old Friday 3rd November 2017, 00:53   #25
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I bid on that Maven, just for kicks...$967.00 plus shipping was a much as I was willing to bid..... Kind of an unknown entity.
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