A D800 at last (1 Viewer)

[Dave Williams]

Dave,
I really wanted the D4 but baulked at the price too. But the main benefit I'm getting with the D800 is that I can use it as a travel camera. Try doing that with the D3s/D4. Of course the Canon G1 X makes a nice travel camera too.
I haven't had enough sunny days with lots of birds in flight to really test the D800. Birds are starting to arrive here again on migration so I should get a lot more experience over the next few weeks.
The D800 AF seems to lock on a little faster than the D3s so you can grab the first frame quicker but seems to lose it after about 3 frames. With the D3 I had 17 frames of a Sea Eagle flying straight at me in focus. The D800 doesn't seem as capable. I'm sure the D4 is.
Why not pick up a D3s at a good price if you need the speed?
Neil

I considered the D3s but I would prefer higher resolution than 12mps for the bigger cropped shots. I know the quality of the D3s is better than my D300s but latterly I have seen the difference between that and the 16mp's of my Canon 1DMk1V. I don't want to go backwards!
My big problem is my investment in Nikon glass which I could sell but to replace with their Canon equivalents would cost me too much if I had to buy new.I could sell piece by piece and wait for a pre owned to become available but then I might not have what I want for my next holiday trip which would be disastrous !
Package tours from the UK seem to limit hand baggage to 5kg so I think I am resigned to loosing my 600mm Canon for my next trip and will have to take the 500mm Nikon which I can get away with ( as I could with a Canon one if I owned one!). For that I would be happy to use a D800 with as I don't tend to use it for BIF. However, my favourite all round lens is the 300mm f2.8, especially for BIF. I have noticed that lately, in fact since the body went back to Nikon for a repair, that the AF doesn't work very well at all on anything but single point on my D300s. It's not worth sending it back for another look, the cost just doesn't justify it. I need a new body and again, a few more mp's would be appreciated. That brings me back to the D800 which I don't think is what I want for BIF and fast action shots with a 300mm.
I could of course buy a Canon 300mmf2.8 and use the 1D but then I am limited on reach if I can't take the 600 and besides that duplicates the 300mm. Seems daft having a Canon and Nikon version. It still leaves me unhappy with my D300s !
So there is my dilemma, all to do with baggage allowances and appropriate lens and body for my needs.
I appreciate I am very lucky to have these problems but I spend ages going over the options in my head,that's what happens when you get too obsessed with a hobby ! I guess it's just a shame that the much awaited new offerings from Nikon are not what I really need or want to pay for right now. I actually believe that Nikon bodies probably have the edge in their current line up vs Canon's but not worth the extra cost of the D4 vs the 1DMk1V if you happen to have the latter already.
cheers Dave

 

[Jaff]

I appreciate I am very lucky to have these problems but I spend ages going over the options in my head,that's what happens when you get too obsessed with a hobby !

Dave we share a common infirmity here! :t: :-O

 

[Dave Williams]

That's very interesting Neil cos as I understood it the AF systems in the D800/D4 were identical. I have to say though in the limited time I used the D3x I didn't really see any difference in AF performance vs what I was used to with my 1DMKIII. And the Canon 300mm f2.8/2xTC combo felt like it AF'ed quicker than the 200-400mm/1.4x combo. I can't wait until the day I maybe get a hold of a 5DMKIII to see what that does.

You are right in the AF systems supposedly being identical, apparently if you put the D800 in crop mode you get more the AF points included in the focal area of the lens so that should be advantageous.
Most people who have tried both the D4 and D800 seem to say buy the D800, it's got virtually everything the D4 has except fps. Makes you wonder why the D4 price is so much higher other than it's aimed at pro's who can probably offset it to business expenses etc.
The D3x was really a studio lens despite suggestions that the resolution was good for wildlife.
I'm not surprised you found the 300mm combination better than the 200-400 either. cheers Dave

 

[Jaff]

In my 'grand plan' the D3x was only ever meant to be an interim body for me until the D4 stocks welled up in the various shops which they now have done but it all fell flat on it's face. What I was trying to say though was that the D3x AF is the same as the D3s and given everything I'd heard I was expecting it to be superior to my 1DMKIII which I quite simply didn't find to be the case. Maybe it was just me or more to do with the lens, who knows, but what's done is done and I have to live with the choices I made.

 

[pe'rigin]

I do think that with the D800, you’re stepping back in time to the days of film, which to my mind isn’t a bad thing. More care and thought has to be applied when using the camera, it does make you stop and think, not only about speed but available light and composition. The files are huge but again it clarifies the brain and you get more robust in selecting and deleting those images, which aren’t up to the mark.

This is a handle with care camera, not a rapid response tool, it can willingly oblige, but we have to accept its limitations. Its core business is to provide crystal clear images under the right lighting conditions. For the cost, it is a value for money camera in the present retail market.

 

[JPAC]

Someone I know let me test my 300mm f2.8 with both 1.4 and 2x converters last week (effective 840mm f8) as Nikon boast the D800 will focus down to f8. Well it didn't, my D300 made a better attempt but both don't work. Nikon UK made the excuse that only one TC at a time can be used. Yes, my TCs had the metal tab filed down to allow both to used together. Manually focused the results are not bad considering.

He showed me his pictures on the camera using his 24-70mm and all were out of focus, so my NAS (Nikon Acquisition Syndrome) for the D800 has gone.

 

[Dave Williams]

Someone I know let me test my 300mm f2.8 with both 1.4 and 2x converters last week (effective 840mm f8) as Nikon boast the D800 will focus down to f8. Well it didn't, my D300 made a better attempt but both don't work. Nikon UK made the excuse that only one TC at a time can be used. Yes, my TCs had the metal tab filed down to allow both to used together. Manually focused the results are not bad considering.

He showed me his pictures on the camera using his 24-70mm and all were out of focus, so my NAS (Nikon Acquisition Syndrome) for the D800 has gone.

To be fair, the D800 will focus at f8 with one TC which for most is as many as they care to use to get a decent image.Your friend must have been doing something wrong to get all the shots out of focus and that wouldn't be a deciding factor for me by any means. With that amount of detail I imagine the focus point has to be spot on and depth of field considered too.

 

[Dave Williams]

More care and thought has to be applied when using the camera, it does make you stop and think, not only about speed but available light and composition. The files are huge but again it clarifies the brain and you get more robust in selecting and deleting those images, which aren’t up to the mark.
.

Isn't that we should be doing whatever we are using ! It's a long learning process and I still have miles to travel but that's the enjoyment too.
cheers Dave

 

[pe'rigin]

Yes I agree Dave, but the more I observe people with cameras, the less I feel that they understand what they’re doing.

There is almost self-reliance on the functionality of the camera, it focuses, dictates the speed and aperture etc, without any thought process imparted from the user.

The same could be said of processing software, where correct exposure, colour balance doesn’t matter, because dear old Photoshop will right any wrongs, (if you know what you’re doing!)

The enjoyment in photography is in taking photographs, but also knowing how you have achieved the results.

One of the reasons why I purchased the D800 was the fact that I didn’t want to play Nikon’s game of continuing upgrades; I was fed-up with the merry-go-round of always chasing better.

The D800 suits me down to the ground, it’s not the fastest, but it’s built to last, and my intention is to remain with this camera. We are basically static for the final printing processes of digital imagery, so
I see no reason why I need to change.

 

[Neil]

As expected the high iso handling of the D800 is not as good as the D3s.
I got caught having to use iso 3200 around sunrise last week , with cloud cover. It's ok for record shots but not if you want to crop close in.
This is a full frame image image showing the original, crop of original, adjusted CS5 and Noise Reduction (Colormancer).
Neil

Nikon D800 plus Nikon 500/4 AFS VR and Nikon TC14 E11

 

[JPAC]

Anyone know why the D800E price has dropped from £2899 to £2479?

Hope the D800 does the same.

 

[gvca1]

I dunno, Neil, I think that looks pretty good for ISO 3200. I bet if you resampled the image down to D3S resolution, it would be comparable to the D3S, noise-wise.

Have you tried Topaz Labs DeNoise?

Jim

 

[Neil]

I took the D800 and the 300/2.8 AFS VR lens out to the mudflats on Monday. It was a nice morning and I got out to the hide around 6.45 am when the water was still high. I shot with all 3 teleconverters ( 1.4x/1.7x/2x).
The D800 is not as fast for action as the D3s and I get fewer in focus images of fast moving birds, but it does lock on as fast, it just loses it earlier.
The first photo is with the 1.4x , the second and third images are with the 1.7x and the flying redshanks with the 2x.
Neil

Hong Kong,
China
August 2012

 

[orca]

Excellent and much appreciated reporting on the D800. Thanks for sharing.

I'm puzzled about the quality difference between the D800 and the V1 on the images of the stilt. Is it because the D800 is so unforgiving with respect to "being in focus"? I can't imagine why the V1 would produce a sharper image from the same distance using the same lens.
and on a different note.
How would the egret image taken with the 1.4tc compare with one taken using the DX crop setting?

 

[Neil]

Excellent and much appreciated reporting on the D800. Thanks for sharing.

I'm puzzled about the quality difference between the D800 and the V1 on the images of the stilt. Is it because the D800 is so unforgiving with respect to "being in focus"? I can't imagine why the V1 would produce a sharper image from the same distance using the same lens.
and on a different note.
How would the egret image taken with the 1.4tc compare with one taken using the DX crop setting?

You are referring to the Pied Avocet comparison earlier in this thread.
The distance may not have been the same , although they look the same size in the final crop. The speed of the V1 does a better job of freezing action. The 4/5 fps of the D800 is marginal sometimes, especially if shooting on a monopod on the wooden floor of a floating hide. If I was using a tripod it would have been a light weight Gitzo Traveller (it's a 3 km hike out to that hide ) and the mirror slap of the D800 on the 300/4 lens does affect sharpness.
Most likely it was the affect of the 2x tele on the 300/4 with an unstable platform. I prefer the 300/2.8 AFS VR.
I'll see if I have shots with and without 1.4x but I would expect without to be better.
Neil

 

[Neil]

Excellent and much appreciated reporting on the D800. Thanks for sharing.


How would the egret image taken with the 1.4tc compare with one taken using the DX crop setting?

This comparison is not exactly as requested but it's with the 2x tele and no tele on the 300/2.8 AFS with the 1.2 crop switched on in both cases as it gives 5 fps.
I've just cropped the bird to the same size but obviously with the 2x it was bigger in the frame. The distance was approx. the same in both shots.
Neil

D800 plus Nikon 300/2.8 AFS VR

 

[orca]

The results lead me to wonder at which point it is worth having a 2.0TC. Looks to me that with the pixel density of the D800 you still have lots of data to render a great image when cropping.
Once again thanks heaps for sharing; helping me (and numerous others I'm sure) come to grips with all these puzzling choices we have.
Cheers, Paul

 

[Neil]

The results lead me to wonder at which point it is worth having a 2.0TC. Looks to me that with the pixel density of the D800 you still have lots of data to render a great image when cropping.
Once again thanks heaps for sharing; helping me (and numerous others I'm sure) come to grips with all these puzzling choices we have.
Cheers, Paul

I agree with you. My happiest combo is the D800 and 300/4 AFS + 1.4x and 36 megs.
Neil

 

[Jon Taverner]

D800

Finally made the decision to buy the D800 which arrived yesterday. After a lot of thought on how I was going to use it, decided that I would normally have it set to DX mode. Whilst realising it would be similar to my D7000 in terms of mps in DX, I was hoping that I could use a higher ISO as standard and also be more successful at getting properly focused birds in flight shots - something I have not been particularly good at doing. I've attached a Lapwing photo taken this morning at ISO 1000 which has been cropped quite a bit. I also found that on AF-C, I am much more successful at getting sharp BIF shots than I was with the D7000 or the D300s. Very pleased with it so far.

 

[ericbowles]

It's your call on using the DX crop, but keep in mind that the more you crop the more noise is present. A crop from FX to DX on the D800 is equivalent to increasing ISO 1 1/2 stops. In addition, the higher the ISO the more you lose in terms of color and dynamic range.

Birds in flight just take lots of practice. Start with easy birds so that you have lots of chances. You'll be amazed at how much better you get after a few thousand tries.