AOS to discard patronyms in English names (1 Viewer)

[Snapdragyn]

Nice to see so many respecting the OP's request to not use this thread to debate the change. Oh well. More folks for my ignore list!

Personally, I'm happy to see this, & especially glad that they're doing away with the whole lot at once. Give us names that tell us something about the bird itself, & avoid (as was mentioned in one of the press releases I've read) the pitfall of setting up any 'morality committee' to adjudicate individuals as worthy or unworthy of honorifics on a case-by-case basis. That way leads only to further division. It'll be a bother learning all of the new names, sure, but it's a bother I'm happy to take on in order to further the inclusiveness of birding for future generations.

(P.S. I'm well beyond any 'Gen Z' or 'Millenial' age category, so don't presume my change-welcoming attitude is tied to youth, TYVM.)

Oh, & a couple of ideas:

Rose-throated Hummingbird for Anna's - I like the play off of Ruby-throated (although, I know, banding code difficulty there)
Also I'd really prefer Magnificent Mountaingem (or even Northern Mountaingem) for Rivoli's to bring the name in line with other members of the genus.

 

[Farnboro John]

I'm surprised that AOS hasn't chosen to deal with some of the real issues in their list, but in the interests of progress I offer the following:

Delete "American Robin", Insert "Nearctic Red-chested Thrush". It's not a robin and it ranges over more than just the USA.

Delete "Sparrow" for all non-Passer sparrows, replace with "Bunting".

Have a nice day

John

Nice to see so many respecting the OP's request to not use this thread to debate the change. Oh well. More folks for my ignore list!

Personally, I'm happy to see this, & especially glad that they're doing away with the whole lot at once. Give us names that tell us something about the bird itself, & avoid (as was mentioned in one of the press releases I've read) the pitfall of setting up any 'morality committee' to adjudicate individuals as worthy or unworthy of honorifics on a case-by-case basis. That way leads only to further division. It'll be a bother learning all of the new names, sure, but it's a bother I'm happy to take on in order to further the inclusiveness of birding for future generations.

(P.S. I'm well beyond any 'Gen Z' or 'Millenial' age category, so don't presume my change-welcoming attitude is tied to youth, TYVM.)

Oh, & a couple of ideas:

Rose-throated Hummingbird for Anna's - I like the play off of Ruby-throated (although, I know, banding code difficulty there)
Also I'd really prefer Magnificent Mountaingem (or even Northern Mountaingem) for Rivoli's to bring the name in line with other members of the genus.

Anna's has a completely metallic crimson head. What on earth use is a title of "Rose-throated"? Completely misleading. More so, perhaps, than "Anna's"! I know this thread is supposed to be light-hearted but the proposer of this must be light-headed.

John

 

[Snapdragyn]

I'm surprised that AOS hasn't chosen to deal with some of the real issues in their list, but in the interests of progress I offer the following:

Delete "American Robin", Insert "Nearctic Red-chested Thrush". It's not a robin and it ranges over more than just the USA.

Delete "Sparrow" for all non-Passer sparrows, replace with "Bunting".

Have a nice day

John

Anna's has a completely metallic crimson head. What on earth use is a title of "Rose-throated"? Completely misleading. More so, perhaps, than "Anna's"! I know this thread is supposed to be light-hearted but the proposer of this must be light-headed.

John

Fair point that it's more than the throat. I don't see it as 'crimson', however; rosy (or, as one of the sites I'll link below calls it, magenta) seems a better descriptor.

Perhaps, then, 'Rose-faced Hummingbird' or 'Magenta-faced Hummingbird'?

Anna's Hummingbird Identification, All About Birds, Cornell Lab of Ornithology

Anna’s Hummingbirds are among the most common hummingbirds along the Pacific Coast, yet they're anything but common in appearance. With their iridescent emerald feathers and sparkling rose-pink throats, they are more like flying jewelry than birds. Though no larger than a ping-pong ball and no...

www.allaboutbirds.org

https://ebird.org/species/annhum

 

[Paul Clapham]

Say's Phoebe. Okay, there's only three Phoebes in Sayornis: Black, Eastern, and Say's. Since Say's is found in Western North America, overlapping with Eastern Phoebe only in the usual areas where "Eastern" and "Western" species overlap in North America, renaming it to "Western Phoebe" would be a simple fix.

However it's true that Black Phoebe also occupies the "Western" name niche, so maybe that's a drawback. In that case "Scrub Phoebe" or something along that line would use its habitat as its name.

 

[Mysticete]

Say's Phoebe. Okay, there's only three Phoebes in Sayornis: Black, Eastern, and Say's. Since Say's is found in Western North America, overlapping with Eastern Phoebe only in the usual areas where "Eastern" and "Western" species overlap in North America, renaming it to "Western Phoebe" would be a simple fix.

However it's true that Black Phoebe also occupies the "Western" name niche, so maybe that's a drawback. In that case "Scrub Phoebe" or something along that line would use its habitat as its name.

Black-tailed Phoebe is a suggested I have seen referenced a few times. Scrub seems a poor describer of its typical habitat.

Fair point that it's more than the throat. I don't see it as 'crimson', however; rosy (or, as one of the sites I'll link below calls it, magenta) seems a better descriptor.

Perhaps, then, 'Rose-faced Hummingbird' or 'Magenta-faced Hummingbird'?

Anna's Hummingbird Identification, All About Birds, Cornell Lab of Ornithology

Anna’s Hummingbirds are among the most common hummingbirds along the Pacific Coast, yet they're anything but common in appearance. With their iridescent emerald feathers and sparkling rose-pink throats, they are more like flying jewelry than birds. Though no larger than a ping-pong ball and no...

www.allaboutbirds.org

https://ebird.org/species/annhum

Having lived in California, I feel like "Garden Hummingbird" kind of captures the common-ness of the species. It's pretty much easy to see year round and often around people.

 

[gusasp]

In that case "Scrub Phoebe" or something along that line would use its habitat as its name.

How about Rufous? One’s black, one greyish-green, and one rufous.

 

[gusasp]

I'm surprised that AOS hasn't chosen to deal with some of the real issues in their list, but in the interests of progress I offer the following:

Delete "American Robin", Insert "Nearctic Red-chested Thrush". It's not a robin and it ranges over more than just the USA.

True that it’s a misnomer, but at least it refers to the bird’s appearance in some way.

Have a nice day

You too!

 

[Jacana]

Having lived in California, I feel like "Garden Hummingbird" kind of captures the common-ness of the species. It's pretty much easy to see year round and often around people

There's already a Garden Emerald, so maybe best to avoid "Garden"? I like the idea of incorporating a "pink" word for this species. There are lots of potential words and they're rarely used in bird names. I guess due to the comparative scarceness of pink in birds.

Magenta, fuschia and cerise all come close and none of them (Magenta Petrel doesn't count) are used in bird names currently.

 

[Jacana]

Even if mythological, that name refers to a dead male European. Problematic.

Waking up this morning with a genuine question:

Will mythological characters be discarded? If so, Calliope Hummingbird should be added too I suppose.

 

[pbjosh]

Just for the fun of discussion, I think something like Chaparral Hummingbird works well for Anna's, though Garden is also a good name. A color based name is pretty forgettable and useless. As well, most of the Anna's you see are tatty and even most males are not completely pristine, so perhaps Tatty Hummingbird, though that name could also apply to about 50% of all species of Hummers So maybe Common Hummingbird?

For Costa's, between the fact that it's got such a killer gorget and it's range is more Mexican than US'ican, Bigote Hummingbird comes to mind

 

[dantheman]

Just for the fun of discussion, I think something like Chaparral Hummingbird works well for Anna's, though Garden is also a good name. A color based name is pretty forgettable and useless. As well, most of the Anna's you see are tatty and even most males are not completely pristine, so perhaps Tatty Hummingbird, though that name could also apply to about 50% of all species of Hummers So maybe Common Hummingbird?

For Costa's, between the fact that it's got such a killer gorget and it's range is more Mexican than US'ican, Bigote Hummingbird comes to mind

Bigotted Hummingbird? - Surely that's going far too far the other way!

I was thinking the same on renaming, eg with colours in that females and non-breeding males could lead to confusion/pointlessness. Same with habitats and vegetation types. With global climate change ... some birds may move around, in any case there could be big changes down the line ...

 

[vergan]

I object to the name 'America' on the same grounds? Can we get rid of that too?

Don't be so rude. America is the sole property of the inhabitants of the US. How on earth they will change that?

Certainly the idea that the rest of the world might go along with their nonsense - especially for species where their "jurisdiction" is marginal at best such as Cory's Shearwater - is remarkable.

John

Please, don't be ridiculous. Let them decide what they can do and what they can't.

 

[Farnboro John]

Bigotted Hummingbird? - Surely that's going far too far the other way!

I was thinking the same on renaming, eg with colours in that females and non-breeding males could lead to confusion. Same with habitats and vegetation types. With global climate change ... some birds may move around, in any case there could be big changes down the line ...

Colours in bird names are generally based on breeding plumage males (though phalaropes provide an interesting exception on the dual grounds that the females are brighter and while we refer to Grey Phalarope the Nearctics call it Red Phalarope: "Long-billed" would be a helpful new epithet for Wilson's I suppose). The best thing to do with female hummers is look the other way and tick off males.

John

 

[dantheman]

Colours in bird names are generally based on breeding plumage males (though phalaropes provide an interesting exception on the dual grounds that the females are brighter and while we refer to Grey Phalarope the Nearctics call it Red Phalarope: "Long-billed" would be a helpful new epithet for Wilson's I suppose). The best thing to do with female hummers is look the other way and tick off males.

John

Ha, they are indeed. Which makes me think that renaming birds after the colours of the males should be a strictly no-no if the renamers have any morals/standards. How patrynomical can you get?!

;-)

 

[Farnboro John]

Ha, they are indeed. Which makes me think that renaming birds after the colours of the males should be a strictly no-no if the renamers have any morals/standards. How patrynomical can you get?!

;-)

The only criteria for bird names after the current round of cleansing ought to be meaningful identification adjectives and males are generally most identifiable because they have the display plumage (if you want to acknowledge female ascendancy this means females undertake mate selection so have control of the mating process). I take it we do think all individuals of the same species should have the same name.....?

John

 

[wcb]

For inspiration, the Swedish Taxonomic Committee is currently changing (or has recently changed) some eponyms...

...Cook's Petrel – maoripetrell (”Maori Petrel”)...

Couldn't this also be deemed a bit dodgy considering how many bird (and other animal) species were wiped out after the arrival of the Māori people?

 

[vergan]

Couldn't this also be deemed a bit dodgy considering how many bird (and other animal) species were wiped out after the arrival of the Māori people?

They are non-white humans, so nobody cares regarding what they did or not...

 

[Xenospiza]

Magenta, fuchsia and cerise all come close and none of them (Magenta Petrel doesn't count) are used in bird names currently.

There is Magenta-throated Woodstar: https://ebird.org/species/matwoo1

 

[Markus Lagerqvist]

Just for the fun of discussion, I think something like Chaparral Hummingbird works well for Anna's, though Garden is also a good name. A color based name is pretty forgettable and useless. As well, most of the Anna's you see are tatty and even most males are not completely pristine, so perhaps Tatty Hummingbird, though that name could also apply to about 50% of all species of Hummers So maybe Common Hummingbird?

For Costa's, between the fact that it's got such a killer gorget and it's range is more Mexican than US'ican, Bigote Hummingbird comes to mind

Chaparral is what we opted for as the Swedish name:

• Anna’s Hummingbird – chaparralkolibri = Chaparral Hummingbird
• Costa’s Hummingbird – ökenkolibri = Desert Hummingbird

 

[JWN Andrewes]

Couldn't this also be deemed a bit dodgy considering how many bird (and other animal) species were wiped out after the arrival of the Māori people?

Didn't they wipe out the previous people there, the Moa Hunters, or have I misremembered?