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AOS to discard patronyms in English names (1 Viewer)

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I thought this was quite funny from one of the resigning committee members re English names: "We and other ornithological groups can cite any set of any standardized English names we want when we produce our own official lists, and this could be decided by a vote of its members rather than be forced on you by the leaders you elected, as happened in AOS. ... One immediately viable alternative is the International Ornithological Committee (IOC) World List ... I see no reason why we should bow down to an edict handed to us from an elite group of virtue-signalers obviously disinterested in what you think because they already know what’s best."

This is pretty extraordinary from the same person who has made a lifetime pursuit of forcing Peters check-list taxonomies on South America in face of all the evidence. And who was at the centre of all the "hyphen wars" with IOC. And who runs a committee whose main raison d'etre from the inception of the IOC list has been to publish and pass through proposals discrediting and rejecting all the IOC's differing taxonomies on the basis of "insufficient evidence".... before about turning on plenty of them years or even decades later. Apparently, IOC is the way to go now, despite the hyphens and all those previously dodgy splits (which are now fine, because they keep some patronyms!).
 
Can you provide more details? I have been annoyed for some time about why different taxonomies use different scientific names for birds - one that comes to mind is Anser cygnoides (IOC and Clements) and Anser cygnoid (BirdLife) - but when I was doing some mapping work, I discovered plenty more. Also your sill see notes published by taxonomic authorities that say 'use of XXXX has precedence over YYYY'. My original belief was that names were assigned by some authority, and could not be changed, but IOC, Clements and BirdLife appear to have a lot of leniency in making their own decisions.
I Raty would be the person to check about those. cygnoid however sounds like a typo in Birdlife, not a difference in nomenclature
 
I have seen both Kaufman and Sibley supporting this crazy process of de-naming patronymic birds.
That would be funny because those 2 guys are the only ones I have with patronymic books... The Sibley guide..., Kaufman field guide... but it isn't.
I would expect them to change their patronymic book names... Oh, wait, again, Do what I say, not what I do!.
But will the Princeton Field Guide, which stands to be one of the best field guides for North America yet made, do so? Since Howell is involved in that, who hasn't been shy about rejecting AOS taxonomy in his own publications, there is a non-zero chance they will choose to ignore the new common names.
 
Do publishers and authors of field guides have an incentive to support the new names so as to sell more books / new editions? Honest rhetorical question.
 

I thought this was quite funny from one of the resigning committee members re English names: "We and other ornithological groups can cite any set of any standardized English names we want when we produce our own official lists, and this could be decided by a vote of its members rather than be forced on you by the leaders you elected, as happened in AOS. ... One immediately viable alternative is the International Ornithological Committee (IOC) World List ... I see no reason why we should bow down to an edict handed to us from an elite group of virtue-signalers obviously disinterested in what you think because they already know what’s best."

This is pretty extraordinary from the same person who has made a lifetime pursuit of forcing Peters check-list taxonomies on South America in face of all the evidence. And who was at the centre of all the "hyphen wars" with IOC. And who runs a committee whose main raison d'etre from the inception of the IOC list has been to publish and pass through proposals discrediting and rejecting all the IOC's differing taxonomies on the basis of "insufficient evidence".... before about turning on plenty of them years or even decades later. Apparently, IOC is the way to go now, despite the hyphens and all those previously dodgy splits (which are now fine, because they keep some patronyms!).
I thought this was also a pretty ironic statement.

Although not to come off as Ageist or to devalue Remsen's work, should anyone really serve 20+ years on a checklist committee? I understand if there are actually very few relevant folks who could do the work, but I am skeptical you can say that about birds, or even neotropical birds. Just to make sure the decision process over taxonomy doesn't become biased or get stuck with outdated thinking, folks should cycle on an off the committee at a somewhat regular rate, not have lifetime appointments.
 
I had this thought as well. My immediate knee-jerk reaction when I heard the news was that this sounds like a desperate attempt to remain relevant.... here on the heels of Clements making some high-visibility taxonomic breaks with AOS.

What gives me pause are the statements from the ABA and eBird seemingly welcoming the changes, and by extension I think WGAC embracing "local names...."


However, I'm still overall inclined towards thinking this is still a sign of the decline in the AOS and these past 18 pages of forum talk will amount to little. If I may play Nostradumba$$ for a bit, I'll explain:

- Let's say that this effort is "successful" despite the baked-in difficulties of contention, public input, connection to a particular zeitgeist, and oh I almost forgot - large scale checklist changes. I'll let this be its own bullet.

- We are not necessarily or even actually left with replacement names, but instead "new" names. As others have pointed out, there is a significant difference from previous name change efforts, due to association with political identity, the scale of change, the contemporary march toward so-called standardization like never before, and whatnot. I think more than ever, this provides an incentive for people to want to "choose" their own names as a statement of political identity (or other reasons that they feel valid). People are already indicating this here and elsewhere. And frankly, it has happened forever - people still refuse to use "Bearded Reedling" or "Eurasian Wren." I wouldn't call them birders or ornithologists, but there are people who refuse to call a Turkey Vulture anything other than a (lowercase, of course) "buzzard." (note the period inside the quotation mark because they are all American people ;))

- I've often felt like a Cassandra on this topic until the past year or two, but birds, just like everything (biological or not), have multiple common English names. This is not anyone's opinion, this is a stone cold fact of etymology which could conclusively be argued in a high school term paper. The WGAC has been the first to poke its head up and acknowledge this fact, stating that the multiple common names will be considered valid and interchangeable in their system, based on (local or situational) propriety. This is more broadly an acknowledgement of the common sense that no English name will please everyone, and language speakers will react accordingly - as they have since language began.

- While I like the idea of standardized common names, especially for their value in citizen science and bridging the gap for "normal" people to appreciate science... this may be the beginning of the end of the idea for a truly uniform set of English common names. If the patronym effort is not enough to convince people that common names are not as important as we pretended, I'm not sure what it would take. If people utilize North American bird names as a tool for political identity (think of the throngs of new "birders" taking a stand on the Democrat and Republican bird names! Now THAT is inclusive!), then scientific journals will not want to touch these names for how distracting they would be. Maybe field guide authors will feel the same. We will join most of the other biological disciplines in utilizing scientific names as the primary communication method, leaving the "common" names for "common" purposes. I think WGAC, etc. will still have a role - taxonomically of course, but there will be some value in trying to police a single common name being used for two different taxa. You can draw your own conclusions if you like, but if this effort is successful, I believe this could be the death knell for common English names in ornithology (and for these delightful debates on common names!)
I think we saw the end of the standardization movement when IOC started to back-peddle on there own names in favor of newer ones some years ago. I means its telling that WGAC is completely avoiding that issue by just agreeing to list multiple names. I was the biggest cheerleader for standardization of common names, but now I am more "meh" about it. People will never march to the same drum, and I am skeptical how much confusion multiple common names cause, especially since different versions usually have similar names. Granted this is a different situation. It occurred to me this morning that folks in San Diego will be getting new names for three of their common hummers, while folks in Dakota will have at least three new sparrow names of closely related taxa that occupy similar habitats. New names for Nelson's and Le Conte's Sparrow is going to induce headaches
 
I Raty would be the person to check about those. cygnoid however sounds like a typo in Birdlife, not a difference in nomenclature
Howard & Moore adopted at least three "original spellings" of Linnaeus in their contracted forms. In this paper, two of those were reversed by ICZN:


However, Linnaeus (1758) usage of "Anser cygnoid.", for which he cited various pre-Linnaean "cygnoides" as authority, was omitted from that case. Perhaps by error of omission. So noone really knows what to do with that one. I suppose the principle of the ICZN case is clear (and we could also talk about prevailing usage), but Anser cygnoides Linnaeus is yet formally to be corrected.

Do publishers and authors of field guides have an incentive to support the new names so as to sell more books / new editions? Honest rhetorical question.
As a field guide co-author, first thing to say is noone does that for the money. My net takings from a field guide which has sold thousands to date have been precisely zero - books are pretty cheap to purchase and costs only cover publication and printing. Writing is a vocation. Probably the more taxonomic changes, the more often updates are needed.

should anyone really serve 20+ years on a checklist committee?
Probably noone should spend more than 8 years in any leadership position. That's what politics tells us, right? Power corrupts, and there has been plenty of directional nonsense on bird committees. Maybe being on a committee and being CEO/chair need distinguishing though.
 
I'm curious how the name of a bird can be exclusionary. Who is going to quit birding, nay, be excluded from birding, because of a bird named after some (usually fairly obscure) historical figure? Especially considering, for the vast majority of cases, one has to make a rather deep search to find their wrong behaviors or opinions. This decision completely baffles me.

But anyway, I think Flaming Warbler, or some variant, would be a good replacement for Blackburnian

Re: the bolded section, I thought the same way, initially. But, after further consideration, I realized that as an older white guy who has birded for over 50 years, how can I come to that (the bolded) conclusion? I have no basis to do so; I have not walked a mile in any one's shoes but my own.
 
Can you provide more details? I have been annoyed for some time about why different taxonomies use different scientific names for birds - one that comes to mind is Anser cygnoides (IOC and Clements) and Anser cygnoid (BirdLife) - but when I was doing some mapping work, I discovered plenty more. Also your sill see notes published by taxonomic authorities that say 'use of XXXX has precedence over YYYY'. My original belief was that names were assigned by some authority, and could not be changed, but IOC, Clements and BirdLife appear to have a lot of leniency in making their own decisions.
The ICZN has a set of rules to manage the scientific names of animals (which includes birds). But these rules are to be applied to names which were produced using 19th century technology, so it isn't possible to apply them precisely and unambiguously. Did so-and-so use "caeruleus" or "coeruleus" in their 1843 paper? Well, we have to look at the actual paper with a magnifying glass and see which ligature was used there. Was it published before another author's 1842 paper where the bird was called something else? Well, we have to find out when those papers actually arrived in the hands of readers; there was no such thing as "publication date" then, they had to go to printers and be delivered to readers using 19th century technology. Also bear in mind that the rules were made up after a lot of those publications had already appeared, so the writers didn't know the rules they would later be expected to follow. And of course the rules are subject to interpretation, as are all rules. And of course problems like transcription errors occur.

So no, there wasn't any "authority". There's a messy set of data which is mostly, but not completely, tamed by a complex set of rules which has changed over time and is still subject to interpretation.
 
And a rule like we have with UK postage stamps - you can't have a bird patronym unless you are dead already.

TD

Surely this is no longer the case? See, for example, this article:


(Or does this mean that the "Paul is dead" rumours were true???)
 
As a field guide co-author, first thing to say is noone does that for the money. My net takings from a field guide which has sold thousands to date have been precisely zero - books are pretty cheap to purchase and costs only cover publication and printing. Writing is a vocation. Probably the more taxonomic changes, the more often updates are needed.
Thanks. Makes sense. (y)
 
So the Swan Goose example is a case where there are arguments for each version. Perhaps one set of arguments will win out, but if not then, and only then a case can be made to be decided by the Commissioners. Once a decision has been published then the question is settled once and for all; in the case where it is not referred to the Commission then new evidence (or interpretation of the evidence) can always reverse the decision. Essentially most cases do not get referred to the Commission.
 
Note changes to AOS committees

And as it stood a few days ago:

The LSU website that hosts SACC remains unchanged it seems.

Maybe they did not get Winker's resignation letter yet?

Classification and Nomenclature (NACC)​

Co-Chairs: R. Terry Chesser and Carla Cicero

Members: Shawn M. Billerman, Kevin J. Burns, Jon L. Dunn, Blanca E. Hernández-Baños, Rosa Jiménez, Oscar Johnson, Andrew W. Kratter, Nicholas A. Mason, Pamela C. Rasmussen, Kevin Winker

Early Career Systematics Group: Max Kirsch, David Vander Pluym, Nicholas Vinciguerra

Technical Advisors: Normand David, Daniel Gibson, Michel Gosselin, Dan Haig, Marshall J. Iliff, Michael Patten, Thomas S. Schulenberg

Evaluates and codifies the latest scientific developments in the systematics, nomenclature, and distribution of North and Middle American birds. Publishes the Check-list of North American Birds and its annual supplements.

Classification and Nomenclature (SACC)​

Acting Chair: Currently open

Members: Juan Ignacio Areta (Argentina), Elisa Bonaccorso (Ecuador), Santiago Claramunt (Uruguay and Canada), Alvaro Jaramillo (USA and Chile), Daniel F. Lane (USA), Jose Fernando Pacheco (Brazil), Mark B. Robbins (USA), F. Gary Stiles (Colombia), Kevin J. Zimmer (USA)

Technical Advisors: C. Daniel Cadena, David Donsker, Jorge Pérez-Emán, Gary R. Graves , Steven L. Hilty, Mark Pearman, Vitor de Q. Piacentini, Thomas. S. Schulenberg, Bret M. Whitney, Juan Freile, Jhonathan Miranda

Keeps abreast of and contributes to the systematics, nomenclature and distribution of South American birds. Produces products that provide ready access to such information, including the Checklist of South American Birds.
 
But will the Princeton Field Guide, which stands to be one of the best field guides for North America yet made, do so? Since Howell is involved in that, who hasn't been shy about rejecting AOS taxonomy in his own publications, there is a non-zero chance they will choose to ignore the new common names.
it is not about the new names, it is about their guides who are some of the few that carry a patronym in the very own guide. So, wilson warbler is bad, but Sibley guide is good?
 
The LSU website that hosts SACC remains unchanged it seems.
Except that it simply says "The South American Classification Committee was founded in 1998" whereas it formerly said "The South American Classification Committee, founded in 1998, is an official committee of the American Ornithological Society".

I'd say it's an extremely difficult task to take over and successfully operate a website which has been run by a single person for a quarter of a century, so it will be interesting to see where it goes from here.
 
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