Are Porro's Dead? (1 Viewer)

[typo]

Brock..... Excellent!

Malloot,

I noticed that fellow birder won't take you serious when you carry porro's these days until you discover a scarce bird in their vicinity. It seems you need the modern (expensive) roofs to join the the herd.

Unfortunately I know exactly what you mean. As a casual/novice birder I appreciate help and advice. If I want to avoid withering looks, sarcastic or patronising comments or simply being ignored I've learned to avoid the guys with with the big brand roofs and scopes. Porro owners are a nicer, more helpful, if rarer group in my limited experience. Sadly many of the owners are fairly mature. Is it the porros, their owners or just nice people that are fading away?

(I'm sure this doesn't apply to anyone here. )

David

 

[Malloot]

Brock..... Excellent!

Malloot,


Unfortunately I know exactly what you mean. As a casual/novice birder I appreciate help and advice. If I want to avoid withering looks, sarcastic or patronising comments or simply being ignored I've learned to avoid the guys with with the big brand roofs and scopes. Porro owners are a nicer, more helpful, if rarer group in my limited experience. Sadly many of the owners are fairly mature. Is it the porros, their owners or just nice people that are fading away?

(I'm sure this doesn't apply to anyone here. )

David

Am I fairly mature with my 34 years of life experiance?

 

[typo]

Ah! To be so wise, so young.:t:

 

[Malloot]

Ah! To be so wise, so young.:t:

 

[2nd_winter]

Just wait till Porros are the hight of fashion all the big wildlife presenters swanning around with Porros! Arr a dreamer of beautiful dreams. One day we can all use what we like & there will be no hassle, long live the revolution.

 

[ceasar]

I noticed that fellow birder won't take you serious when you carry porro's these days until you discover a scarce bird in their vicinity. It seems you need the modern (expensive) roofs to join the the herd. Luckily I'm don't want to follow the herd and am I very happy with my Swarovski Habicht 7x42 and would trade them for anything.

But I agree, top quality porro's are to be extinct. There is no product development at all in the top range. And you can't blame them, all more experianced birders automatic buy roofs and think porro's aren't up to the job. How wrong can they be.....

I'd love to buy a top range porro 8x56 which are waterproof. No I probably settle with the Docter Nobilems 8x56.

Classic porro's are way more beautiful then any modern roof. Especially the leather covered ones, like my Habicht and also the old Hunter 7x50 of my dad which is around 30 years old and still in very good condition. I know it is very personal, but hey it is the internet so I can shout anything I want.

Here is an 8 x 56 you can use until you find that Docter Nobilum.

http://www.celestron.com/c3/product.php?ProdID=174

Bob

 

[ceasar]

New Porro's from Kowa thanks to RJM in Japan who seems to agree that Porro's should be buried as already dead. See his post here also:

New Kowa Bino Lines: http://birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=208580

http://www.kowa-prominar.ne.jp/pro/bino/yf/top.htm

Bob

 

[steve@37n84w]

I agree that some porro's are quite good optically. That is not my point and they will probably always be around in the big apertures for the astronomers and the small reverse porro's will be there for the bug watchers. But I just see them dissappearing in the sizes that BIRDERS use because of all the advantages of the roof especially waterproofing. I don't see any NEW porro's being developed by any of the big three and to me that signals death. All the new models are roofs. SV's,CL's,FL's and EDG's.

Dennis


I had the use of my son's new 8.5x42 EL this summer during the off season(he's an avid hunter) and was really impressed with its overall quality. If I were asked to rate its optical performance however I would restrain from using the superlatives it deserves and only give it a "quite good". I couldn't say it was any better than that since it didn't surpass the views in my 8x32 SE's...and we all know a porro can only be "quite good". Of course the truth is it was optically superb; however,it wasn't any better than the porros I use on a regular basis.

I also had the use of a 10x50 EL for a weekend courtesy of our local swaro dealer and it had a lot to offer. It weighed less than your typical 10x50 and had great ergonomics but even though it retails for 2,000.00 more then the 10x50 porro I compared it with the views weren't any better. The 10x50 EL would be a much better choice for terrestrial viewing(less weight,close focus, and center focus) but optically it didn't best the view of the porro.


Everyone knows that roofs dominate the market but at the risk of sounding pretentious most diehard optic enthusiasts are more savvy than the general public about the fact porros often offer the optical quality of alpha roofs for much less money. As you can see from my signature below I also use roofs and like you I've looked through at lot of good glass... only difference is I tend to hang on to mine

Steve

Roofs: Nikon 7x42 EDG, Leica 8x42 Geovid HD, Zeiss 8x20B, Zeiss 8x42 FL
Porros: Nikon 7x50 SP, Nikon 8x30 E11, Nikon 8x32 SE(x2), Fujinon 10x50 FMTR-SX, Nikon 12x50 SE, Zeiss 15x60 GAT T*, Nikon 18x70 IF-WP

 

[brocknroller]

Awesome!:'D

Thanks to you and typo, too.

Once I found Dennis on Linkedin and saw that company he worked for had two locations in Tuscon, Arizona, the parody wrote itself.

Cheaper porros will probably never become extinct, but premium porrosaurus are becoming extinct since there's no new development, just the soul survivors - Habichts, SEs, 820 Audubon, and the IF EP Fujis.

There are still some old great CF porros to be had on the used market. I almost bought this mini-me Audubon "old new stock" Swift 8x36 SPWA....

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=310336040775&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

One thing I do like about roofs is the latest coatings, which even on today's under $300 Chinese bins are better than most old porro's. For birding, where contrast and color saturation are high priorities, "Old Technology" MC porros, which having everything else I like, unfortunately, don't have those qualities.

According to Professor EDz, you can't just slap on the latest coatings on old porros, because even though it only adds a thousandths of an inch difference, it would require reconfiguring the lenses. Seems incredible a few more layers of coatings would make that much difference, but he's the "professor".

That's a real shame, because, otherwise, it would have been just a matter of stripping the old coatings and adding new ones. Then I wouldn't have to pay $2K for an alpha just to get the improved coatings while losing the 3-D effect, better depth perception, and more comfortable ergonomics of porros.

Premium glass has improved too, although there were some ED porros nearly 20 years ago, and I wouldn't mind the old lead glass in porros, which took quite a lot of effort on the part of optical glass makers to even match, let alone improve on.

What's need is an innovative Porro II design, which allows porros to have both internal focusing and a wide FOV. BUILD IT AND THEY WILL COME!

Just think of what those old dinosaurs would look like today had they been given a chance to evolve...

http://www.serpo.org/r30pics/Dinosaur_14.jpg

McLennon

 

[Howard220]

Thanks to you and typo, too.

Once I found Dennis on Linkedin and saw that company he worked for had two locations in Tuscon, Arizona, the parody wrote itself.

McLennon

TUCSON! TUCSON! "Can't anybody here write [the name of] this town??" :C

Jojo (who 2 years ago left his home in Tucson, Arizona for some upstate New York grass...)

 

[looksharp65]

If there was a nicely worn vintage 6x30 where the black leather has gone semi-shiny brownish and the brass shows here and there,
and the view is absolutely top-class with fully MC lenses, quite thin and tall eyepieces with hard bakelite eyecups...

...I might consider it.
Thinking of an item worthy to be worn by Biggles or Indiana Jones.
Can it be done? Is it already somewhere out there?

 

[brocknroller]

TUCSON! TUCSON! "Can't anybody here write [the name of] this town??" :C

Jojo (who 2 years ago left his home in Tucson, Arizona for some upstate New York grass...)

Sorry, Howard, a momentary bout of dyslexia. Got it right the first time in the song parody.

Here's one for a newly minted Easterner. Try phonetically spelling Houston Street in downtown Manhattan.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Houston_Street_%28Manhattan%29

Bet you loved last winter in upstate NY after living in TUCSON! Brrrr...

Brock

 

[Howard220]

HOW-stun.

But I cheated, Brock; I grew up in the Noo Yawk City area and as a young man of 22 went west for a 40 year stay. Yeah, last winter was a doozy. But I was prepared with a new snowblower instead of paying some guy with a plow $35 a pop to mess up the lawn alongside the 150' driveway.

You're forgiven. Many people screw up the spelling of Tucson -- it ain't "'tuitive." Just keep pushing for good porros and all will be right with the world.

Howard

Sorry, Howard, a momentary bout of dyslexia. Got it right the first time in the song parody.

Here's one for a newly minted Easterner. Try phonetically spelling Houston Street in downtown Manhattan.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Houston_Street_%28Manhattan%29

Bet you loved last winter in upstate NY after living in TUCSON! Brrrr...

Brock

 

[brocknroller]

HOW-stun.

... You're forgiven. Many people screw up the spelling of Tucson -- it ain't "'tuitive." Just keep pushing for good porros and all will be right with the world.

Howard

Howard, the Ex-Noo Yawker,

Thank you, I will keep pushing uphill for new premium porros.

Sisyphus, the Ex-Noo Jerseyite

"The cause endures, the hope still lives and the dream shall never die.”

 

[[email protected]]

New Porro's from Kowa thanks to RJM in Japan who seems to agree that Porro's should be buried as already dead. See his post here also:

New Kowa Bino Lines: http://birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=208580

http://www.kowa-prominar.ne.jp/pro/bino/yf/top.htm

Bob

Those are not alpha porro's. I am talking about porro's that would be superior to the SE or EII with ED glass and updated coatings. The big three or Nikon could easily make a really knock your socks off porro if they wanted to but they won't because as I said porro's are dead in the size birders want.

 

[2nd_winter]

Did you know that Opticron have made the best of both worlds? They have made Porros with wait for it, with internal focusing........

 

[Malloot]

Here is an 8 x 56 you can use until you find that Docter Nobilum.

http://www.celestron.com/c3/product.php?ProdID=174

Bob

Thanks, but I own a brilliant pair of Swarovski Habicht 7x42, but I want a additional pair of 8x56 Nobillem. The availability isn't the problem. Lack of budget and quite a big and expensive wishlist are my limit.

 

[Ross_F]

This thread seems to be following a trend!

LP record V compact disc,

betamax V VHS,

Film v digital, ect :-O Get my drift.

 

[looksharp65]

Porri. It's not "Porro's", "Porros" or "similar.

"Porro" is the name of the inventor of the prism configuration, and it means "leek", "Porri" is plural.

In Swedish, "porr" means "porn", so it's not advisable to call old-fashioned bins "porrokikare" because the average Sven will give you strange looks.

 

[ceasar]

Porri. It's not "Porro's", "Porros" or "similar.

"Porro" is the name of the inventor of the prism configuration, and it means "leek", "Porri" is plural.

In Swedish, "porr" means "porn", so it's not advisable to call old-fashioned bins "porrokikare" because the average Sven will give you strange looks.

Does that plural hold true with Italian names or only with members of the Onion family?

Suppose Paolo Ignazio Pietro Porro went to the opera with his wife: Would you say "The Porros went to see "Un ballo in maschera." (Assuming the production was in Italy and not held in Sweden.) Or would you say "The porri went to see "Un ballo in maschera."

Bob