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Are these people Birders ? (6 Viewers)

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streatham said:
Hi all,

I hate to seem like I am standing up for these people as I really don't agree with their methods or the way they seem to revel in killing off the sparrows

Luke.

And that seems to be the thrust of this thread, whether someone who enjoys killing birds can really be called a birder. After reading some of the threads on these Purple Martin forums, I genuinely feel that some of these people enjoy the war on sparrows and starlings more than they care about the birds they are supposedly protecting.

Whoever is in charge of the main Purple Martin organisations over in the U.S. really needs to keep a check on their lunatic elements.
 
Hi Ben,

How's sunny Croydon - from there myself originally - had a great day out at Beddington when I was back this Christmas.

Perhaps someone who has posted on this thread should write the Purple Martin Organization with their concerns about the content of their forum and ask about the Sparrow/Starling issue - I would be interested to read the response they give as they seem to advocate the removal of these non-native birds - do they have scientific evidence to back up this recommendation? I don't know myself.

Luke
 
streatham said:
Hi Ben,

How's sunny Croydon - from there myself originally - had a great day out at Beddington when I was back this Christmas.

Perhaps someone who has posted on this thread should write the Purple Martin Organization with their concerns about the content of their forum and ask about the Sparrow/Starling issue - I would be interested to read the response they give as they seem to advocate the removal of these non-native birds - do they have scientific evidence to back up this recommendation? I don't know myself.

Luke


I did!
 
"Can you post it to the thread when you get a response - i'd be interested to see what they say."

This is what I got in response to some questions :-

"Malky,

The purpose of the Forum is to share an exchange of information about
purple martins. Forum policy guidelines prohibit off topic posts, etc,
if case you have not read the guidelines. For that reason, your posts
have been edited and/or deleted in some cases. Please keep posts
within policy guidelines.

L. Chambers
PMCA"


Seems that they have double standards. I wonder why??

Regards

Malky
 
Malky,

I don't agree with what these guys are doing and I think they are wrong. However, I am not surprised your posts were edited when you make generalised anti-American statements like "The afore said content only reflects the word-wide dislike to your attitude to others, including races and species. You, as a society may have the biggest and best arms, but some of you reflect the lowest morals of society. "
 
Neil, I am not anti-American, but please tell me, how can a university assisted based forum accept the advocation of torturing birds. The schools/universities are the basis of teaching and setting of examples and moral standards of any nation.

"©1999-2005 by Purple Martin Conservation Association. All rights reserved. The Purple Martin Conservation Association works in cooperation with Edinboro University of Pennsylvania, which provides logistical support. Edinboro University of Pennsylvania is a member of the State System of Higher Education."


Regards

Malky
 
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alcedo.atthis said:
Neil, I am not anti-American, but please tell me, how can a university assisted based forum accept the advocation of torturing birds. The schools/universities are the basis of teaching and setting of examples and moral standards of any nation.

I totally agree that there is no excuse for such cruel behaviour. As regard the university (check out their website, it's very Scottish-American!!) as they seem just to provide logistical support and do not contribute the content to the Purple Martin website, it would be hard to blame them for the postings. If you feel strongly about it why not email the principal, whose email address is on the Pennsylvania University of Edinboro home page. I am sure that University is not likely to condone such postings.

All I am saying is that your posting is likely to be perceived as anti-American and I don't think it's all that helpful to make a posting that generalises the behaviour of a group of dysfunctional individuals to the wider American people. If an American poster made such a generalisation about Scots or British I am sure many of us would be quick to take offense.
 
"All I am saying is that your posting is likely to be perceived as anti-American and I don't think it's all that helpful to make a posting that generalises the behaviour of a group of dysfunctional individuals to the wider American people. If an American poster made such a generalisation about Scots or British I am sure many of us would be quick to take offence."



Neil

Their forum is for public viewing.

Are they removing comments relating to cruelty, actual or not, NO.

Are their claims all over the world that the USA is the largest industrial polluter? YES.

How many times had you read that they are a "free society" and "multi cultured tolerant society".

Are the comments on their web site reflecting some of the tolerance of their society? Unfortunately, YES.

Some seem to think that they are free to do as they please, and this will be tolerated buy all others. By non-removal of the posts advocating torture, by the sites administrators and moderators, they seem to be quite correct.

Torture acceptable, criticism NOT!!

By accepting the behaviour patterns of some of their posters, on the face of it, they are. The only problem, is that, on the face of it, this is acceptance of behaviour which is abhorrent to the majority members of a civilised society.

In conclusion, you, or they, are only as good as your last bad job, or in this instance, they are only as good as their perceivable, across the board, attitude to nature, in general.



Regards



Malky.

Ps, I have been locked out of their forum at present. You have not seen all of which has been posted, or questions asked by e-mail.

So are you perceiving me as anti-American, without all of the available information??
 
alcedo.atthis said:
Are they removing comments relating to cruelty, actual or not, NO.
Oddly enough, the initial post on that thread regarding torture of sparrows has gone.
Still, there's plenty of similar examples on their forum.
 
Hmmmm... Aparrently this is a Purple Martin site, all discussion about Purple Martins, however, there are forums for House Sparrows and Starlings, Bluebirds, ect. If they are Purple Martin lovers what effect do House Sparrows and Starlings have on the Purple Martin population? Why they resort to killing is beyond me.

The quote Steve posted:
i have really enjoyed sitting in the window watching them land on it and zapping their lil butts lol

Reading that made my stomach turn inside out.
Can't people from BF talk to them and ask them, nicely; WHY? I am going to if the admin lets me on the board.
 
What on earth are you people talking about?

House Sparrows and European Starlings are vermin outside of their native environment, and do untold harm to the wildlife of the places that they have been introduced to (notably North America and Australia).

Anything that helps reduce their numbers is of direct benefit to the conservation of native birds.

Shoot away, good people of Michigan, with my blessing and with the blessing of all genuine conservationists and bird lovers.
 
My point tannin is not so much about killing the birds as to the delight they take in doing it ?
Anyone who enjoys torturing birds tannin are IMO unbalanced? my place is a farm with rats, mice, and all sorts of vermin. I get the ratcatchers out in winter to kill the rats with poison as they come up from the farm buildings looking for warmth and food, they do not TORTURE or GLOAT about it, they just kill them and remove them.
 
So are you perceiving me as anti-American, without all of the available information??[/QUOTE]

Malky,

No, I am just giving an opinion of how one of your comments is likely to be perceived - the one I clearly quoted earlier. I did not say that I held a personal opinion that you are anti-American, I said that that was how your comment could be perceived. I am also saying that I'm not surprised that your wider comment within that quote might have caused offense. You are correct in saying that the postings advocating cruelty are unacceptable and I agree that if that forum is moderated then such should be removed.

Regards,

Neil
 
Andy Bright said:
Oddly enough, the initial post on that thread regarding torture of sparrows has gone.
Still, there's plenty of similar examples on their forum.
I know Mike Dale posted that he had notified the PM org yesterday about the forums in question so maybe someone is looking into it?
 
streatham said:
Hi Ben,

How's sunny Croydon - from there myself originally - had a great day out at Beddington when I was back this Christmas.

Perhaps someone who has posted on this thread should write the Purple Martin Organization with their concerns about the content of their forum and ask about the Sparrow/Starling issue - I would be interested to read the response they give as they seem to advocate the removal of these non-native birds - do they have scientific evidence to back up this recommendation? I don't know myself.

Luke

Hi Luke,

Also in UK both House Sparrow and Starling polulations have plummeted here in recent years. If the cause turns out to be a virus that is species specific then perhaps USA should introduce a few more of these to affected areas. In which case the shooting and additional cruelty will be pretty much unnecessary.

However, having said that, here in Warlingham (also not far from Croydon) possibly house sparrows are making a comeback. This year, for the first time in many years, we are getting sparrows in our garden and this is now almost daily.

Steve
 
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