Bird Watching Magazine (1 Viewer)

[pduxon]

Hey John

check the signature at the bottom of the post its Pete! Although some members call me quackers!!

I think what John was trying to say was contained in the last paragraph. It's all very well to berate a magazine like Birdwatching for not publishing what you want but someone else will find it fascinating. Of course as Steve says criticism is of course perfectly acceptable BUT a bit of constructive critiscism would be a good thing. Email the editor and tell him what you like and what you don't.

This last point begs a question. With BF its rather easy to have feedback with the staff but do the magazines ever do satisfaction surveys.

I took the view that the first 90% of the post was said for affect and to be "controversial". I don't think he really believes that garbage like "but who the hell cares if Joe Bloggs from Timbuctu has just joined BF, particularly if they couldn't identify their way out of a paper bag?" - if he does then, well, to say the least I'd be a tadge surprised and I'll join you in being offended .

 

[pduxon]

If you want a forum and all the Bits that go with it for hardnose Birders, with log in facilities, we will Gladly set one up for you, see andy's last post.


steve

one thing that might be handy for some folks is the ability to tailor the new posts search - would it be possible for members to be able to exclude certain forums if they so desired. So members who don't want the say hellos or aren't into digiscoping or my inane ramblings could skip them.

Just a thought, I'd rather get the lot in case I miss something good.

 

[pduxon]

Hey John

The things you miss when you are annoyed! Sorry Peter.

John Barclay.

tell me about it!!

 

[jeff]

I found this months issue very poor. There are only two articles one on raptors and the other on the re-introduction of Great Bustards. In my opinion not good enough in a magazine that has 98 pages. Corrrect me if Im wrong but the Id insights on chats has been covered in the last 12 months. Lets hope next months is an improvement.

Martin :C

I think your right this months mag wasn't too good, let's hope next months is a bit better

 

[Bluetail]

Hey, John C, I think your post was absolutely spot on. I was with you all the way - up until the point at which whatever you're on tonight started to kick in and you started berating BirdForum! How dare you, Sir! As with Birdwatching mag, it's horses for courses. All abilities are welcome here.

Yours ever,

One of the dam fools that can post messages and does.

 

[John Cantelo]

Apologies to John Barclay and anyone else who was hurt by my comments. I thought that I'd pretty clearly signalled the fact that my tongue was firmly in my cheek and that I was being deliberately provocative. The fact that I might find so many postings uninteresting doesn't mean that they are such for all and sundry which was the larger point I was trying to make. In fairness, whilst I claimed 95% of postings were banal and boring I also conceded that even more of mine were inane and pointless. As for his own postings I would hardly have bothered to spend time replying to them, as I have, if I had found them either banal or boring.

Actually, I do think that there is a danger in getting too dependent on using a forum like this to get one's birds identified. Taking a picture and posting it is a more passive way of doing things than working your way through the pictures in the books (assuming that the ability to read confidently is denied to you). Working at it for yourself is a more active form of learning and one by which things are more likely to stick. It's not simply a matter of being dyslexic or having learning difficulties. Indeed over the years I've known people who could be seen as falling into either (or both camps) who could make a better fist at identifying birds than others without such problems. I'd hardly have spent so much of my own time over the years taking out beginners if I didn't think that it was a worthwhile exercise. Despite any impression gained from my posting I'd recommend taking out "makee-learnee" birders to any experienced birder. To see familiar birds through fresh eyes is always an enjoyable experience and one that constantly makes you reconsider what you think you know. And, yes, Pete, you're spot on!

None the less if my comments did come over as hurtful and unpleasant, then I apologise once again to John and anyone else that took offence,
John

 

[Bluetail]

No offence taken here, John, and it's a valid point you make.

 

[christineredgate]

It'sa free world ,John and free speech.

 

[Andy Bright]

Actually, I do think that there is a danger in getting too dependent on using a forum like this to get one's birds identified. Taking a picture and posting it is a more passive way of doing things than working your way through the pictures in the books (assuming that the ability to read confidently is denied to you). Working at it for yourself is a more active form of learning and one by which things are more likely to stick. It's not simply a matter of being dyslexic or having learning difficulties.

Yep, it hasn't gone unnoticed by BF that some are serial posting for bird i.d's and we have mentioned it to one or two to purchase a decent field guide to study from. Most of these i.d. queries are from 100% non-birders, often photo orientated, so purchasing a book to i.d. d.i.y style is more likely to draw them into the hobby of birding ...which is obviously desirable.

Clearly, one-off or occasional i.d. requests from the same individual are likely on BF when we have a reputation (and 100,000+ pages on google) of being 'the place' to get a mystery bird indentified. Even so, the i.d. section is just a tiny part of BF.

If you felt my 'promotion' of BF was vulgar (though I'm not entirely sure what comments you were referring to), then too bad...it's my job and passion and I have no hesitation in trying to expand it in any and every direction that will benfit birders.

Regards,
Andy

 

[Andrew]

I would like to address you by your Christian name but I don't know it.

Avert your eyes to the signature!

 

[John P]

Well I have recently subscribed to Bird Watching for 6 months in order to get the Collins Guide as a free gift. As I was going to buy the book anyway it seemed a cheap way to get it.

It looked like that to me too on the surface, but if you read the small print (see June issue - page 56 - the column on the far right) you have actually signed up for a year.

I'll be interested to see how it turns out for you, the wording is certainly misleading and not the sort of sharp practice that I expect from a company such as Emap.

 

[John Cantelo]

I suspect, Andy, that my comment re vulgarity just mean I'm showing my age. Being of a somewhat antique vintage I was brought uo to consider all & any forms of self promotion as vulgar. Nothing personal just a reflection of my old fashioned and out dated view of the world; I still open doors for folks, stand up for women & the infirm on buses, walk on the outside of the pavement when escorting a female, etc. I'm sure you're right to trumpet your successes and triumphs as loud and as long as you please .... just don't expect this old curmudgeon to feel comfortable about it, John

 

[Leif]

There was some while ago an interesting article in a popular photography magazine. The writer argued that you can't trust what you read on the Internet as its written by self styled experts with no form of peer review. His conclusion was that for reliable information that we can trust we should buy photography books and magazines. Of course this conclusion was completely unconnected to the writer's occupation ie. photography journalist and author.

It seems to me that a forum like BF is peer reviewed. If lots of people say the same thing, then chances are the information is reliable. If one person says something, and others disagree, then the chances are that it is either incorrect, or a minority opinion.

Many magazines get equipment to review from the manufacturers. What would you trust, a review of a cherry picked product tested for maybe 1 hour, or lots of reviews from users who have owned the item for months or even years?

What's more, on BF and other Internet forums, it's possible to ask really obsure questions. I once wanted to know what filter to place over my flash to compensate for an 81B on the lens. I got the answer the same day from a forum. (It's an 80A or an 80B IIRC.)

It's nice to have something that can be carried around to read while on the bus or waiting at the dentists, but Internet forums have value.

 

[Henry B]

Regarding subscription to Birdwatching mag..First year was aprox £26 00. next renewal was for 6 months £19.00 with free monopod..and i have again re subscribed for 6 months with free Collins guide included. confirmation letter doesn,t sayanything about a yearly contract.corect me if i am wrong...

 

[Edward woodwood]

John C., you are a diamond. Don't apologise for the values you hold dear. They are decent, honest, values full of integrity - old fashioned they may be and not enough people have them these days. Your posts are always thought provoking, intelligently composed and written with the benefit of a lot of birding experience. Good to know you're a teacher too!

keep the posts coming

regards from a youngish curmudgeon B

 

[pauco]

I still buy Birdwatching, and enjoy it. Thats just my opinion. But i think whatever mag you "are into" over any period of years they are going to repeat themselves over and over. The black and white photo mags i get are a good example.
bert.

 

[david cromack]

Subscription offer

Hey John

check the signature at the bottom of the post its Pete! Although some members call me quackers!!

I think what John was trying to say was contained in the last paragraph. It's all very well to berate a magazine like Birdwatching for not publishing what you want but someone else will find it fascinating. Of course as Steve says criticism is of course perfectly acceptable BUT a bit of constructive critiscism would be a good thing. Email the editor and tell him what you like and what you don't.

This last point begs a question. With BF its rather easy to have feedback with the staff but do the magazines ever do satisfaction surveys.

I took the view that the first 90% of the post was said for affect and to be "controversial". I don't think he really believes that garbage like "but who the hell cares if Joe Bloggs from Timbuctu has just joined BF, particularly if they couldn't identify their way out of a paper bag?" - if he does then, well, to say the least I'd be a tadge surprised and I'll join you in being offended

 

[david cromack]

I am pleased to clarify to Birdforum members that the Bird Watching subscription offer for a free copy of the Collins Birdguide is valid for a six month subscription. The reference to a minimum one year subscription period actually related to the previously published offer and was carried into the new advert in error. Sorry for the confusion.

Picking up on the debate about the merits of various magazines, I hope those members who are not familiar with what Bird Watching offers will take advantage of this new subs offer to trial the magazine.

Clearly no birding publication can satisfy every member of the birdwatching community and I don't think any of the mainstream British titles attempts to do this.

British Birds, Birdwatch, Birds Illustrated and Birding World are all serving clearly delineated specialist sectors of the market, while Bird Watching is the only title catering for the broad mass of recreational birdwatchers (age range 9 to 90+, beginners to people with more than 20 years' experience).

The staff and editors all understand the needs of their core audiences and try to supply material that is appropriate. I always welcome feedback from readers at any time about how I can improve the offerings in both Birds illustrated and Bird Watching. However, these suggestions need to be realistic – it is no use complaining that magazine X doesn't provide enough material for beginners when it has never had the intention of serving that particular market. My recommendation is to shop around until you find the publication closest to what you want - and then start a dialogue with that particular editor. You could even offer to write an article along the lines of what you think is missing from that magazine!

 

[deboo]

Fair do's David,

I'm sure there are plenty of folk on BF who could and should contribute to magazines.

BUT...
If you want to know the latest score from the Test Match..you don't wait for Wisden.

BF, as I've said before, is much more spontaneous than any magazine or book.
We can discuss the latest rarity, optics offer on ebay, places to visit etc etc...immediately.
We can talk to folk from around the world, enjoying their birds too.
How magazines respond to the growth of Web sites such as this...I dunno?
I got back into birding thanx to your magazine..but I'm going further forward on the internet...

Sincerly Dave.

 

[Henry B]

Just read article on Ian Wallace,a most unfortunate choice of initials me thinks,DIM. ?.. Quite the opposite surely