Birdlife is overdoing it (Times of Malta) (3 Viewers)

[Adam W]

every time shooting being banned is mentioned you come up with the same non argument about banning driving because someone might speed.
I'm still waiting for your reply to why shooting is a necessity to the continuation of modern life. or why fr example we could get rid of driving, if you can show either to be the case then you might have an argument but as i said it is a non argument used to justify the continuation of a completely unnecessary pastime. which through it's existence is causing bird populations throughout Europe to be pushed towards extinction.

banning shooting across Europe would do nothing to life in Europe, for anyone other than the shooters. i.e. the people who as a group are breaking the law and bringing these species close to extinction.

I may have used that driving arguement before in reply to another post but i certainly dont bang on about it every time like you are making out.

I've never made any attempt to say shooting is a necessity as it clearly not but if thats the best arguement against it you can come up with then thats really not much of a reason at all. Just because not many people do something and you dont do it doesnt mean its okay to just do away with it an sod those who it does affect.

Its also worth remebering that the problem we are discussing here is ILLEGAL shooting so what makes you think that banning something that is already banned is going to stop it from happening?

 

[captaincarot]

so your argument is to keep it and sod everything that it does effect, in which case why not legalise heroin there's a lot of people who like it and a fair few people who can make a good living off supplying it. what's more none of the species it affects are anywhere near being endangered.

 

[willito]

... so what makes you think that banning something that is already banned is going to stop it from happening?

Maybe the slavery example gives you a hint?

 

[Adam W]

so your argument is to keep it and sod everything that it does effect, in which case why not legalise heroin there's a lot of people who like it and a fair few people who can make a good living off supplying it. what's more none of the species it affects are anywhere near being endangered.

Thats just not what i said at all,all i'm saying why ban something just because of a small minority of idiots,why punish the majority for the actions of the minority?

And seen as you've mentioned it, Drugs are a very good example of how making something illegal doesnt stop criminals from breaking the law and carry on doing it because thats what criminals do which is the problem in Malta.

I just really dont see what your arguement is, banning legal shooting across all Europe has nothing at all to do with the problem this thead is about so how do you think it would somehow be part of the solution?

I've had enough for one night I'm off to bed.

 

[captaincarot]

just as an aside adam what is the closes distance that shooting can occur to a public right of way or a dwelling place?

 

[Adam W]

Maybe the slavery example gives you a hint?

What about drugs then,still plenty of them about.

 

[captaincarot]

Thats just not what i said at all,all i'm saying why ban something just because of a small minority of idiots,why punish the majority for the actions of the minority?

because it is threatening the very existence of numerous species throughout the continent.

 

[Adam W]

just as an aside adam what is the closes distance that shooting can occur to a public right of way or a dwelling place?

50 meters from the centre of a public highway if doing so would endanger or cause alarm. which incidently is of course nowhere near far enough as any responsible shooter would tell you, though each case needs to be treat individually and common sense applied.

Now i am off to bed.

 

[Adam W]

because it is threatening the very existence of numerous species throughout the continent.

But its not its only the illegal shooting that is doing that which is what you wont stop by banning the people who arent causing the problem anyway.

 

[captaincarot]

50 meters from the centre of a public highway if doing so would endanger or cause alarm. which incidently is of course nowhere near far enough as any responsible shooter would tell you.

Now i am off to bed.

so would someone lamping while standing on the confluence of 2 public footpaths 20 meters from the edge of a caravan site be a legal shooter?

 

[bitterntwisted]

Maybe the slavery example gives you a hint?

Still plenty of slavery in the world today... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_modern_Africa

Tradition, you see.

(And for another time, the legalisation of heroin is a bad example. Done correctly, it's actually a bloody good idea... http://www.tdpf.org.uk/blueprint download.htm)

Graham

 

[Russlac123]

because it is threatening the very existence of numerous species throughout the continent

The hunters are rebelling and shooting everything quite delibaretly, because they feel aggrieved. If they feel aggrieved, Birdlife has gone about something the wrong way. Hunting and killing is natural for all species including humans. Some people enjoy hunting, thats life, some people couldnt care less about species and conservation, many would be happy to concrete over everything. Are they any less human? We have to all rub along, forcing our ideals onto others doesnt help anything, it breeds resentment. A gentler/alternative approach/comprimise could well have better for all parties. You cant ban everything because its marginal, I like watching boxing, that doesnt that make me a violent thug. Why are some drugs illegal, when Whisky, cigars and some horrendous prescription drugs are allowed? I bet you ll quite happily tuck into a turkey dinner this christmas and not even consider the poor bird given life to be taken away. Does that make you a bad person?

 

[Andrew Rowlands]

Please try to get back on track with this.

The hunters (criminals, abettors ?) are rebelling and shooting everything quite delibaretly, because they feel aggrieved. If they feel aggrieved, Birdlife has gone about something the wrong way. <SNIP>

My addition.

They feel aggrieved because they say their government lied to them throughout the accession of Malta to membership of the EU by being offered false promises of the continuation of (previously) legal Spring hunting and extended Autumn hunting of EU protected species.





Birdlife is just being used as an excuse because they are having an effect where their own Maltese government (and the EU) don't seem to be.

The more you argue about irrelevant issues, the more confusion you spread, thus aiding the illegal shooters (poachers).

 

[willito]

Well, if we are to get back on track, then I have to quote the former post:

http://www.timesofmalta.com/articles/view/20100502/letters/birdlife-is-overdoing-it

Interesting to see it from the perspective of a non-hunting Maltan. Comments are rather interesting too.

Interesting is definitely too polite for my liking. 'Worrying' or even 'pathetic' would match better. By extending the reasoning of the article, you could plainly agree with every crime just because "it happens elsewhere too". No, that's not the way to go. If things are happening in Spain, Greece, China or Africa, then let's go over there and try to figure out how to solve them.

In the end, the argument of hunters becoming poachers just because they feel aggrieved ... plain hypocrisy, we all know that.:gn:

 

[Jos Stratford]

Law-abiding hunters are ok in my books, unfortunately the most vociferous 'hunters', aka poachers or trigger-happy criminals, in Malta seem to have no respect for anything, legal or otherwise.

Spot on mate,couldnt have put it better myself.

Law-abiding hunters are not necessarily ok. Much would depend on the law - if, as often is the case with Malta, the laws are not up to standard, allowing for example unregulated hunting, then clearly a law-abiding hunter is not ok. It only works if you have both responsible laws AND law-abiding hunters.

 

[Adam W]

so would someone lamping while standing on the confluence of 2 public footpaths 20 meters from the edge of a caravan site be a legal shooter?

Very possibly they would be legal,depending on the individual circumstances common sense might tell you not to do that but i dont think there would be anything actually illegal with that.

I often shoot in places where there are houses and public rights of way some of the houses are those of perfect strangers so obviously i would show a bit of common sense and courtesy and keep my distance but on the other hand some of the houses may be those of the farmer who has ask me to come there and shoot so then there wouldnt be a problem shooting in close proximity to the house as long as it was safe of course which goes without saying anyway.
The same goes with footpaths etc,50 meteres is no where near far enough away to fire towards it but standing on the edge of a right of way and firing away from it wouldnt endanger anyone and wouldnt cause alarm as you obviously wouldnt fire if there was anyone around.

 

[Adam W]

Law-abiding hunters are not necessarily ok. Much would depend on the law - if, as often is the case with Malta, the laws are not up to standard, allowing for example unregulated hunting, then clearly a law-abiding hunter is not ok. It only works if you have both responsible laws AND law-abiding hunters.

Fair enough but obviously that only applies under the assumption that the law isnt ridiculous,which in my opinion at least in this country it isnt though it may well be in Malta.

 

[Russlac123]

Its bad whats happening, but I do sometimes wonder about people. Some are demonising the Maltese as wild untrustworthy savages because they shoot a few birds. The very same people that voted in that scumbag Blair, after the undeniable illegal murder of innocent people, women and children. There are a few dissenters, who are proving a point, because they have been lied to by their government and resent having rules thrust upon them by what they see as a 'birdwatching' organisation. The majority of Maltese hunters are good people, they see it as a hobby. Fox hunting is banned, look at the furore over that, do people still do it, of course they do. Maybe we should get our own house in order first?

 

[rosbifs]

You'd rather have someone shooting than letting their dogs foul the pavement?

 

[Adam W]

You'd rather have someone shooting than letting their dogs foul the pavement?

Depends what you mean by shooting, if its responsible,sustainable, legal shooting like the vast majority of us in Britian do then yes personally I would obviously if you mean the illegal disgraceful things that happen in Malta then of course no.