Can a small bino really deliver? (1 Viewer)

[NDhunter]

Graham:
I just do need to respond to your post. It seems you have plenty of pockets for those
little Zeiss bins. Now tell us, from your pic, did you have those on you in this pic?

But, now to the serious question, I am thinking that 8x32 Nikon or the Zeiss, do easily
outperform these little ones. I know, as I have tried them.

For me, the pocket bins, have their place, when travelling, or in the city. But for normal
use, not the best choice. I hope you get along with them, and for portability, they do help.

Jerry

 

[looksharp65]

So after all this, did we decide that small binos can deliver?.....or not.

Most definitely they can!

Yesterday I took a 30 minute walk with my son in the neighborhood. My plan was to walk to the grocery store for buying coffee beans, but I brought my Nikon Mikron 6x15 to be prepared.

Luckily I did so, because these close surroundings were literally stuffed with various finches and sparrows. Together with the thrushes, doves and magpies I saw 16 different species walking these few hundred meters.

I used my Mikron, and in the bright light of yesterday I found its view brilliant and vivid.
The field of view is astonishingly good. But it is ergonomically poor, being so tiny.

It also requires that I take my spectacles off. It is not really an appropriate birding binocular, but yesterday it made me "Wow!" dozens of times.

Or was it the finches that caused my exclamations?

 

[Graham Osborne]

Hi Jerry

I just thought the pockets on these shorts might be big enough for a pair of Nikon Monarch bins as suggested by Sancho. My own legs are also not quite as young as the pair in the picture.

I would not disagree with you at all that the larger bins outperform the 8X20s. I find my FL 8x32s and Swaro EL 10x42 much more comfortable and satisfying to use than my new compacts. However, I still think that they are pretty excellent specifically in terms of resolution. Perhaps I should have added that the main purpose of acquiring the 8x20s was to have a pair of binoculars with me when cycling (and at other times when a full size pair is not convenient). Actually, I do already have a pair of compacts (a pair of rather interesting vintage Swift Aerolite 8x21s). However, their optical performance is not quite good enough to encourage me to frequently take them with on cycling trips. I am rather hoping the Victory 8x20s will provide enough of an improvement to give me the incentive to stow them in my cycling jersey on a regular basis (once I have recovered from a current knee injury that is).

Hi Looksharp

It is good to hear such a positive account. Keep enjoying your Mikron bins and the birds you see with them.

Regards to All
Graham

 

[Sancho]

Hi Graham, my requirement for compacts is exactly the same as yours. I need small and cute to fit in the back pocket of my cycling vest. As you know, these pockets, especially on summer cycling-kit, won´t take much weight - ab out 230gm max. I had Ultravid and Victory compacts over the years, both being optically excellent - but the former I found fiddly, the latter were easier to get on a bird fast, but exhibited a lot of flare. I reckon they may have been older models. I prefer single-hinge, you know what it´s like when you´re thumping along a rural road and need to stop suddenly to cop a bird - the single-hinge design can be left in the pocket with IPD set and can save valuable seconds getting on the bird (and catching back up with the pelotón). I reckon the Victory were the nicest design for my purposes, but do you find your new Victory 8x20 to have unacceptable amounts of flare?

 

[Graham Osborne]

Hi Sancho

As you say, bins need to be both small and light for carrying in a cycling jersey (and course anything too bulky also spoils the aerodynamics - ho ho!)

I did a fair amount of research before I bought and I have to say that the attraction of the single hinge was quite a big factor - I must thank you for your own very helpful contributions in this respect. My initial limited use of the bins has been positive. On the question of flare I have to admit that I have not yet given them enough of a trial as yet to answer your question, so I will get back to you on this in due course.

Happy birding/cycling

Graham

 

[Kevin Purcell]

I prefer single-hinge, you know what it´s like when you´re thumping along a rural road and need to stop suddenly to cop a bird - the single-hinge design can be left in the pocket with IPD set and can save valuable seconds getting on the bird (and catching back up with the pelotón).

Perhaps the Tour de France could introduce another jersey, in addition to the yellow, green white and polka dot, for combined best time and best list on each stage?

Perhaps blue-grey back and buff front modeled after France's only endemic, the Corsican Nuthatch.

 

[Graham Osborne]

Great idea Kevin. That jersey would be more tasteful than most of the ones I wear.

Graham

 

[Sancho]

The guy in the centre, having braked suddenly and caused mayhem, is desperately grappling to extract the Nikon HGL 8x20 that have snagged in his pocket as the Corsican Nuthatch disappears from view:

http://www.google.ie/imgres?imgurl=...a=X&ei=y7shTabvCYqWhQeTsJW3Dg&ved=0CCUQ9QEwBA

 

[Graham Osborne]

Ouch. Dontcha just hate falling off.

 

[Sancho]

Ouch. Dontcha just hate falling off.

Yeah, and falling off with some expensive mini-optic in the vest pocket would be expensive as well as painful. Maybe it´s time to re-think this multi-tasking combination of hobbies.

 

[Graham Osborne]

How about watching garden birds while on the turbo-trainer indoors?

Back on topic, no sun today to test the amount of flare in the Zeiss 8x20s.

 

[NDhunter]

Ouch. Dontcha just hate falling off.

Graham:
Now you should know, when riding in the Tour de France, no pockets allowed
in that space-age spandex.

Where are you going to stow that bin?

Jerry

 

[Graham Osborne]

Hi Jerry

Au contraire. Capacious pockets are essential, particularly for the domestiques fetching bidons to Messrs Armstrong, Contador etc.

 

[looksharp65]

The 6x24 Trinovid seems to defy the laws of optics, from what I have heard.
Anyone who tried it?

 

[Sancho]

The 6x24 Trinovid seems to defy the laws of optics, from what I have heard.
Anyone who tried it?

No, but I´d love to. They seem to command a very high 2nd-hand price. Not waterproof, though, so wouldn´t tick one of my boxes.

 

[Graham Osborne]

Hi Looksharp

Previous thread here: http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=73267

Wide field of view of view at the expense of ER. I have never seen a pair but would certainly like to see that view.

 

[Hermann]

Previous thread here: http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=73267

Wide field of view of view at the expense of ER. I have never seen a pair but would certainly like to see that view.

Warning - this is off-topic:

Leitz used a combination of a roof prism and two mirrors in the Amplivid. There was also a small number of 7x42's built, about 1000 pieces, with a field of view of 170m/1000m. I've never seen one, those that survived must all be in the hands of collectors. The trouble with this construction was apparently that the 7x42 (with internal focussing!) was very difficult to dismantle and adjust for repairs. Hans Seeger writes in his book it took a qualified technician between 10 und 14 hours (!), several times as much as doing the same work on a conventional binocular.

BTW, Zeiss also made a "real" wide angle binocular, albeit before the last war. The 8x40 Deltarem with its huge prisms had a field of view of 198m/1000m. I once had a chance to look through one of them, and even though it was in pretty bad shape and of course uncoated the view was quite amazing.

Hermann

 

[Graham Osborne]

Hi Hermann

Not as off-topic as the TdeF!!! And very interesting information - thanks.

Sancho

The sun came out briefly here a short while ago (hurrah!) and I was able to compare the flare performance of my Zeiss Victory 8x20 against that of my Zeiss FL 8x32. I found that the 8x20 did not perform well in this respect as you suggest. Whilst careful eye placement helped to reduce the flare it is certainly considerably worse than in the 8x32 (minimal in comparison). However, whilst I would not be satisfied with this level of flare in my main full-size birding binoculars, the optical performance of the 8x20 is otherwise so much better than my old Swift compacts that I am very hopeful that I will still find the 8x20 satisfactory for its intended purposes. But only time will tell I guess.

 

[Hermann]

Some on-topic stuff:

I finally got another compact myself, mainly because I wanted a pair I can put in my briefcase. I went for the Nikon HG 10x25, despite its size and weight, mainly because I wanted the higher magnification since I usually won't be carrying a scope when I'll be using it. So I wanted as much magnification as possible. I also much prefer the strap attachment on the Nikon.

Now, I haven't been able to put it through its paces yet with family commitments and so on, but so far I'm more than happy. I know the Leica Trinovid 8x20 (from the 1990s, with phase coating) pretty well, but there's simply no comparison. The Nikon is *far* better optically, with much better contrast and edge resolution. Sure, a fullsize alpha like the Nikon 10x42 SE is still better, but the difference isn't *huge*, at least not in daylight. The main problem I've seen so far is some slight ghosting when viewing against the light, but it isn't terrible by any means. By the way, Jan Meijerink also appears to like the Nikon's optics (http://www.tvwg.nl/).

The Nikon 10x25 also a lot easier to use than the Leica Trinovid with better designed eyecups, and that's despite the unfamiliar position of the focusser. It's the first compact I've used that doesn't feel almost immediately uncomfortable (I've never used the Ultravid 10x25 though), and yes, I think it really does deliver. I don't think I would want to use it as my main pair on long birding trips; a (good) 8x30 or 8x32 is still a bit better optically, has a larger apparent field of view and is somewhat easier to use in the field, but the gap isn't that big anymore.

In fact, I believe the Nikon (or some other waterproof alpha compact) might be a real alternative to a larger and heavier pair when size and weight are at a premium, like on backpacking trips in the mountains.

Hermann

 

[Sancho]

Sancho

The sun came out briefly here a short while ago (hurrah!) and I was able to compare the flare performance of my Zeiss Victory 8x20 against that of my Zeiss FL 8x32. I found that the 8x20 did not perform well in this respect as you suggest. Whilst careful eye placement helped to reduce the flare it is certainly considerably worse than in the 8x32 (minimal in comparison). However, whilst I would not be satisfied with this level of flare in my main full-size birding binoculars, the optical performance of the 8x20 is otherwise so much better than my old Swift compacts that I am very hopeful that I will still find the 8x20 satisfactory for its intended purposes. But only time will tell I guess.

Many thanks, Graham. This confirms my worst fears. Somehow while cycling I always seem to be looking up at a bird, either a flyover or in roadside treetops. The flare is at its worst then, and most annoying, especially when the bird is silhouetted and the last thing I want is flare. Maybe I´ll save up and (re-) buy an Ultravid.