Canon 450D + Skywatcher 80ED (1 Viewer)

[Paul Corfield]

Maybe get the GSO equivalent from the UK where I think the cheapest I've seen is around £39.99. Then just baffle it yourself like I have done. A pair of Kenko's would probably work fine but it's an expensive option.

Paul.

 

[polaris2]

Well i found one more store on ebay they have the GSO
http://yhst-1469288697390.stores.yahoo.net/22xbarlow.html
And il waiting for a shipping quote.
Like u both said it can be to many glass elements with two Tc so i will get the GSO barlow thanks for the input.

 

[Paul Corfield]

Something else to note is there's no guarantee on how the new GSO will perform photographically with regards to contrast as you will be the first to try it if you get one. The ring they have added is to help with internal reflections and improve contrast but I should imagine this has been done with regards to visual use and not photographic use. Cameras are more susceptible to such things but I would hope the new design would be better than mine and avoid the need to baffle it yourself. The reason I always say to go for the new one is that it should be better and thought I better say that just in case. :t:

Paul.

 

[polaris2]

Yes i know but like u say it should be better if not then il have to baffle it more myself.
I have not recived the shipping quote but il hope they respond today, if its to expensive consider the VAT and some small customs fee are on top of the total price then il go for the old one inside the Eu.

 

[Musoman]

Another update on the TC's

I've now managed to permanently change the mount of the DOI HQ7 2x TC from its original OM mount, to EOS mount.

I bought an EOS mount Macro tube set with an AF confrim chip, took the body mount end off and 2 pack expoxied this to the DOI.
Then i took the thinnest of the Macro tubes ( N0.1 ) and epoxied this to the DOI, so both ends are now EOS mount.

The exposed end of NO.1 tube is threaded, so i can now add Tube 2 and 3 if i wanted. Or both.

The lens mount end of the Macro tube I epoxied to the MAX dslr. I mentioned before that there was some small amount of play in the MAX dslr when fitted on the Macro tube. This is now gone, and no longer an issue.

The next step i may take is to mount the Vivitar MC 1.4x TC into the next thinnest section of macro tube, which is N0.2.
I will then be able to have either TC in, or both, just by adding the N0.2 section of tube.

 

[Musoman]

Would be handy to have the photos B

 

[Paul Corfield]

Do you have a spare bayonet to fit on the Max dslr so that you can use the scope at 600mm? Might be a good idea to get a couple of spare macro tubes so that you could make everything bayonet fitting rather than screw fitting.

Paul.

 

[Musoman]

Yes know what you mean, i 've been waitng for a 2nd Macro Tube for about a week now, and it should be here within the next few days

 

[Musoman]

Just hooked up the scope for some test pics after waiting for the epoxy to dry properly. Now fitted with DOI HQ7 2xTC. Only the 50mm Astro Ext. tube was fitted. I left the 2 other sections of the EOS macro tube out.

Scope on tripod, but pan & tilt were both unlocked so the scope could move freely in any direction

Road sign pics were checked for distance in Google Earth and it was 45 metres

1st: 100% crop of the road sign

2nd: Resized to show how much of the subject was filling the frame.

Shot at ISO 800 / 1/800th / Spot Metering.

The Starling was at 14 metres, again checked in G.E.

1st: 100% crop Starling head

2nd: Resized to show how much of the bird was filling the frame

Shot at ISO 800 / 1/500th / Spot Metering

I also shot a subject ( car number plate ) at 84 meters , but the quality was so bad due to wobble blur that i didnt post it here. I think at that distance, i may need a fully locked tripod head and remote release, which is still being shipped to me.

I cant say that i'm overly excited about the IQ at this point -
I'm getting the feeling that 7 elements may be just that bit too many for the scope. I think the DOI is killing too much light, but i will also say that some of this is down to talent of the operator.

I'll fire off some more shots now and again and see if i can improve, but i'm already thinking of not bothering to hook up that Viv 1.4 TC, but i am thinking good quality ED Barlow

 

[Musoman]

Paul - if you had my set up, and wanted both 1.5x Barlow and 2x Barlow ( or even two 2x barlow ) , would you buy both in 2" size, or would you buy one at 1.25" and one at 2"

Would they mount in the MAX dslr , which is threaded both ends, though i havent a clue what the thread size is and if it matches any Barlow thread

 

[Paul Corfield]

Both my DOI 2X TC's (one is Canon FD and one is Olympus)are razor sharp, even at a few hundred meters they are still excellent so I wouldn't switch to a barlow just yet. In the photos you posted there's maybe a little camera shake but not much evidence of it. The main thing with your new photos is that something is happening in the conversion of the RAW file which is adding loads of compression artifacts while removing detail.
I've posted a few 100% crops from the DOI 2X TC in various threads that show very fine feather detail even at 40m so I'd keep practising and also try out the remote cable when it arrives before you rule out the quality of the DOI. You could try the 10 sec timer for now as the shutter speeds should be quick enough to avoid shutter slap blurring the image. The GSO isn't going to be any better, it works well when combined with teleconverters but on it's own it's 2nd to the DOI in my opinion. At close range it's sharp enough though, say under 20m. Also work on the RAW conversion and see where the compression artifacts are coming from.

Paul.

 

[Musoman]

How would you check which factors the RAW is compressing when converting ?

I use ACR 5 and then into CS4

The bird had very little done to it regarding processing.

 

[Paul Corfield]

Seeing as we use the same scope, TC and camera then we should get the same results and we can compare with something we can both photograph. With the 2X DOI TC try photographing the Queen's head on a £20 note stuck to a wall and post the RAW conversion.

This is a 100% crop from one I did last year and the range was measured to 9m. There's loads of detail on a bank note so it's a good test of the equipment and this image shows how good the image quality can be with this scope.

I'll do another one tomorrow if it's dry as I think this may have been with my 2X GSO barlow but the 2X DOI should be just as good. Mine will be from 9m again so you do yours from the same range.

Maybe do one with the scope at 600mm also and post the 100% crop and we can compare them too. Any differences should highlight differences in how we convert the image and we can work from there.

Also on a side note, Fernando only uses teleconverters for the images on his website, a 1.4X and a 2X Kenko from what I can remember.

Paul.

 

[Musoman]

Cheers Paul - that would be real helpful. I'm guessing maybe i'm the weak link in the equation 8-P



I have a 40D now, bt the way, and the IQ should be as good as anything the 450D can produce

I will have a go tomorrow, weather permitting. Will we both be using tripods locked up ? I have no remote so I will have to use manual shutter press.

Will our different ext tubes and such make any difference ?

I cant take one at 600 at the moment because the Macro tube EOS mount with AF chip is epoxied to the DOI , and the MAX dslr EOS mount is epoxied to the other end of the macro tube


PS - do TC's give the correct increase in FL ? E.G. A 2xTC DOI will give 2x mag. = 1200mm, or will this do what a Barlow does, and give 1.5x = 900mm?

 

[Musoman]

Come to a halt - I had the whole kit outiside, £20 note stuck to the wall. Cold out though

Then after about 10 mins trying to fix the tripod head on the note so the scope doesnt droop ( it looks about 18 " of back droop ) i got the note fixed in the viewfinder, switch camera on and my 40D is telling me to format my CF card. I then did this and it still tells me to format my CF card.

So i take the card out and put it in the USB reader and format on my PC , and this works ok, so back out to the garden and insert back in the 40D and same message - i need to format the card.

So thats that at the moment. I only have that card and its refusing to work.
Another issue is the tripod head. This is woefully inadequate for this set up.
The weight is too much. Even at only 9 metres trying to shoot the £20 note, its was dropping at the camera end so that the note was about 18" too far down

I know the balance is wrong, but even if it were properly balanced, i still wouldnt be able to shoot anything other than with scope level

 

[Paul Corfield]

My tripod is only a bog standard old Jessops one I've had 20 years and even with it locked up it's still all over the place. With the balance set right on the scope it does make a big improvement and now it's only the breeze then that I have to contend with. With my balanced scope on my dads Manfrotto tripod it's rock solid and I'd love to have access to it all the time. I'll get one one day but I tend to spend my money on optics whenever I have spare cash.

With the CF card, try shining a torch down into the card slot on the camera just to check that none of the pins are bent. If you get another card and it does the same thing after formatting in the camera then it could be a camera issue.

Did some £20 note photos at lunch time. 2X DOI TC on its own (1200mm), then a pair of 2X DOI TC's (2400mm) and then a 2X DOI with the 2X GSO (2400mm)

Paul.

 

[Musoman]

Is it me, or is the 2x DOI + 2x GSO a slightly bigger image than the two DOI 2x ?

Never the less, all very good IQ.

These were on a tripod Paul ?


PS - good advice on the CF pins. Had a look and one bent over and laying between pins on the opposite side. Damn !

Googled a bit and found folks getting charged $200 for a fix, so i did it myself - job done


You don't problem with SDHC cards, like on my 450D , so i'm wondering if there's some kind of adapter i can place in the Camera's CF slot, and use my SDHC cards instead ? That way, i'll never have to keep taking the ' pinned ' card in and out, forever weakening the pins. Seems like a bit of an engineering mistake. And i must be clumsy too

 

[Paul Corfield]

Yeah, I think the DOI/GSO combination is slightly bigger, probably about 2500mm maybe. Depends on the distance from the barlow to the teleconverter. When it's screwed onto the front of the scope adapter it gives slightly less than 2X so I put a thin macro tube in between the barlow and TC to compensate but looks like it gave the GSO just over 2X in the photo. All 3 were on a tripod.

Glad the 40D is sorted. The pins can get bent over sometimes if the CF card isn't made exactly right. Sometimes the holes might be slightly off and this can cause a pin to get pushed over.

Had a quick google around and there are SD to CF adapters which seem to get mixed reviews. Might be worth a look though.

Paul.

 

[Musoman]

Cheers - ordered an adapter as i still have 2 x 4gb SDHC cards hanging around after i sold the 450D. Might as well make use of them, rather than buy more compact flash

I'll have another shot at this tomorrow, again weather permitting.

PS just remembered i'd left £20 stuck to the outside wall since this afternoon, and went to get it - the note had fallen off and been blown along the side entrance to the house 3

 

[Paul Corfield]

:-O I wasn't quite so bad, mine was stuck to the fence for an hour before I noticed it out the kitchen window. :-O

Paul