Crossbills in Deeside, Scotland (4 Viewers)

[Andrew Whitehouse]

Flight calls. I love 'em. Initially I thought the flight calls I was recording were mostly Parakeet types (1ii) but I now find myself thinking that most are British types (1i). Have a go on this one. It looks pretty different to the very clear Parakeet ones I recorded last month. Like those it has a strong downward element but the initial element is less 'up and down'. Listening to the recordings, the calls sound quite like the Parakeets I recorded last month, but seem a bit shorter and more clipped to me. So I guess these could be British 1A but I'm not totally sure. The sonograms seem to show a shape somewhat intermediate between British and Parakeet.

 

[Andrew Whitehouse]

And then there's this one. The shape on the sonogram sometimes shows a faint initial downward movement, but then a strong upward then downward movement followed by a long upward movement, producing a distinct tick shape. The sound seems a bit metallic and 'squidgy' (not really a technical term). So I'm thinking this is an Fc4 Glip Crossbill, although the sound isn't quite as obvious as on the SA recording.

 

[Capercaillie71]

Nice sonograms Andrew. I think I would agree with your classification of the calls, using the Summers classification. The problem with using the Sound Approach recordings as a benchmark is that you don't know how representative the recordings are, and how much variation there is within types.

What would be useful would be an online repository of crossbill recordings to compare!

Here's a flight call I recorded near Aboyne on Sunday. It is clearly a Type 1 (according to Summers et al.), but it is shorter in duration and has different proportions to the 'Parakeet' calls I usually get, so I'm thinking it too is a 'British' type.

 

[Capercaillie71]

Here's an interesting call that a perched Crossbill was making (a 'golden cock' I think). I can't quite decide if it's a flight call, excitement call or something else entirely. It doesn't obviously fit any Fc or Ec sonograms I've seen, although it seems to produce quite a distinctive shape on the sonogram.

I think Sandy had a call like this on the 'crossbills in south-east scotland thread'. Don't know what sort of call it is.

 

[Andrew Whitehouse]

Hi Paul - I'm starting to see that it's tricky to differentiate between the type 1 flight calls, particularly as a lot of mine seem to fall between the 'model' sonograms. The Sound Approach is useful and thought provoking but I agree with you that we also need to use the sonograms and recordings with a modicum of caution. I guess a lack of representativeness is always likely to be a problem until a lot more work is done.

 

[Andrew Whitehouse]

I think Sandy had a call like this on the 'crossbills in south-east scotland thread'. Don't know what sort of call it is.

I think my call seems a bit different to Sandy's one. The main component is quite a bit lower but then there's the second much higher harmonic. This call also seems a bit shorter. Sandy's look a bit like the flight calls that appear in amongst the apparent EcA that I posted above - they have the initial upward inflection quite clearly, before the sharp downward component.

 

[Capercaillie71]

Hi Paul - I'm starting to see that it's tricky to differentiate between the type 1 flight calls, particularly as a lot of mine seem to fall between the 'model' sonograms.

Andrew,

Here's a montage of the typical type 1 flight calls I've been recording in mid-Deeside. I would call all of these 'Parakeets' according to the Sound Approach classification. The features they all share are 1) they are longer in duration than most other crossbill flight calls (typically 0.07 seconds rather 0.05) and 2) the lowest frequency is at the bottom of the first downward component. Compare these with the flight call in my previous post, which is shorter and does not reach such a low frequency at the end of the first downward component. It does however, share the \/\ type 1 shape as described by Summers et al.

As you say, until we see more published work on calls, it's difficult to know how significant all this is.

 

[griffin]

I guess a lack of representativeness is always likely to be a problem until a lot more work is done.

It is being done, I can assure you ! Just not published yet........

 

[Andrew Whitehouse]

It is being done, I can assure you ! Just not published yet........

I don't doubt it Linz!

Thanks for the compilation of Parakeet sonograms Paul. Those, together with the ones I made last month, make me a bit happier that the 1 types I recorded yesterday were British.

 

[Acanthis]

Nice recordings Andrew and I love the montage Paul. :t:

#20 's recording reminded me of Magnus Robb's chitter calls in Dutch Birding. I hadn't realised until I checked them on Raven that they differed so much between 'types'. Yours is a bit like SA's Wandering or at the time of the article 'type A - Keep'.

 

[Acanthis]

Nice sonograms Andrew. I think I would agree with your classification of the calls, using the Summers classification. The problem with using the Sound Approach recordings as a benchmark is that you don't know how representative the recordings are, and how much variation there is within types.

What would be useful would be an online repository of crossbill recordings to compare!

I suppose that's what we're doing here on BF. It's a start anyway.

 

[Acanthis]

It is being done, I can assure you ! Just not published yet........

Quit teasing man!

 

[Andrew Whitehouse]

I spent yesterday wandering about Fetteresso Forest and managed to get a few recordings, although there weren't really large numbers of Crossbills about. Almost all appear to have been 1B Parakeets. Below is an excitement call, which for a while I thought might be a EcA British because it shows a pronounced downward element but the shape is too arched with a noticeable initial upward element in most cases. Listening to the SA recordings and some of the other Ec recordings I've made, I'm much happier with this as a EcB Parakeet.

The second one is a not very recording of flight calls. They're not that easy to hear but on the clearer bits from the sonogram these look like Fc4 Glips. I don't quite hear the 'glippiness' at the beginning but they sound quite clipped and 'jaunty' to me which I think is good for Fc4.

 

[Capercaillie71]

I wish I could find a crossbill that would give such clear excitement calls! The only ones I've managed look like smudges. I would agree with EcB.

The flight calls are interesting. You are probably right with Fc4, but I've only recorded a single Fc4 myself, and it sounded somewhat different. Yours seems lower pitched, and I was toying with the idea of Fc3 for a while, but I think Fc4 is a better fit.

 

[Acanthis]

Nice EcB! With distant 125cc too!
Your Parakeet sounds very like mine on the SE Scotland Xbills thread, and it was Linz-certified.
Your sonogram is off course much clearer.

The image looks like an Fc4 and there is a nice Glippy call but I think there may also be another bird with a different call in there too.

 

[Andrew Whitehouse]

Nice EcB! With distant 125cc too!
Your Parakeet sounds very like mine on the SE Scotland Xbills thread, and it was Linz-certified.
Your sonogram is off course much clearer.

The image looks like an Fc4 and there is a nice Glippy call but I think there may also be another bird with a different call in there too.

Hi Sandy - is the different call the arch that appears a few times between 7.2 and 7.9 secs? Any thoughts on what it might be?

 

[Acanthis]

Hi Sandy - is the different call the arch that appears a few times between 7.2 and 7.9 secs? Any thoughts on what it might be?

Oops, I'm such an eejit! (o)<
I've just looked at the sonogram and it looks as though I was picking up the Fc1 Parakeet this morning.

 

[Capercaillie71]

The two calls between 4.5 and 5 seconds seem to be the clearest flightcalls in your recording Andrew. I would say the first one is Fc1 (Parakeet) and the second one is Fc4 (Glip). There is a faint downward component at the start of the Fc1 which looks separate, but probably isn't

 

[griffin]

The two calls between 4.5 and 5 seconds seem to be the clearest flightcalls in your recording Andrew. I would say the first one is Fc1 (Parakeet) and the second one is Fc4 (Glip). There is a faint downward component at the start of the Fc1 which looks separate, but probably isn't

Hi Paul,

Much clearer sonogram but try as I might I can't get the first call to conform to a budgie-keet type ?

Andrew, was this a Remembird recording ? The overall quality has a fairly 'lossy' feel to it !

When are we going to hear your Telinga used in anger ? !

Lindsay

 

[Andrew Whitehouse]

Hi Paul,

Much clearer sonogram but try as I might I can't get the first call to conform to a budgie-keet type ?

Andrew, was this a Remembird recording ? The overall quality has a fairly 'lossy' feel to it !

When are we going to hear your Telinga used in anger ? !

Lindsay

I did do some Remembird recordings but not these ones. Maybe a bit of over-editing to make them a bit clearer. The problem with the Telinga is it's a bit awkward to carry around all day!