'Ethical' binocular companies (1 Viewer)

[jgraider]

All good points...and, yes, I agree most people don't really know what wildlife biologists really do.

Speaking of dissemination of info: to non-hunters, I think the high profile "tv personality" hunters like the Robertsons and Nugent (who are a bit cartoonish), do not promote their sport positively in general and instead only reinforce negative views already in place. They come off sadistic and twisted at times; Shooting with automatic weapons into a beaver pond simply because they hate the animal and this type of thing...Nugent is out of his mind period. I'm curious...how do the hunters in this thread view these "TV" personality hunters?

I think most of the TV hunters are idiots. Most of them give hunters a bad name.

 

[jgraider]

Texas is a bit of an anomaly in hunting, for our size there is a very small percentage of public land to hunt. Just about everything is private. In deer hunting there are a lot of high fence operations, tracts from 1,000 to 50,000 acres that are fenced with 8 ft tall fences. These operations are actively managing the deer population for horn size (I know its an antler, humor me) and body size. I know of several people who have spent $15,000 to bring in a really big horned whitetail buck to move the blood line to larger horns. These guys will shut a ranch down for 8 or 10 years just to let the herd mature, then open it for hunting. Deer farming is big biz here. And with some areas of central Texas holding 150 deer to the square mile, it's pretty important. Last motorcycle trip I made from Fort Worth to Leakey we counted 46 dead deer on the side of the road.

I know several folk who are horn hunters, the mounts are their main goal, they do eat the meat, but they only kill if they see a bigger rack than they have gotten so far. I have one customer who hasnt puled the trigger in 3 years because he hasnt see a larger rack. The last one he got, he may never pull the trigger again. But he goes every year. A guesstimate is he spends about $10,000 every year just hunting.

It's also worth mentioning the fact that in Texas there are more big game animals of certain species than there are in their native lands due to proper management (hunting) and conservation of resources. Blackbuck antelope and aoudad (barbary) sheep are but two examples of this success.

 

[perterra]

It's also worth mentioning the fact that in Texas there are more big game animals of certain species than there are in their native lands due to proper management (hunting) and conservation of resources. Blackbuck antelope and aoudad (barbary) sheep are but two examples of this success.

A friend had a blackbuck fawn show up with his horse herd. They think it escaped from a game ranch somewhere. They brought the horses in to the corral and the fawn ran back and forth outside the corral bleating until they let it in with the horses. It has become so used to humans it now wears a bright orange collar and stays with the horses.

 

[Troubador]

Texas is a bit of an anomaly in hunting, for our size there is a very small percentage of public land to hunt. Just about everything is private. In deer hunting there are a lot of high fence operations, tracts from 1,000 to 50,000 acres that are fenced with 8 ft tall fences. These operations are actively managing the deer population for horn size (I know its an antler, humor me) and body size. I know of several people who have spent $15,000 to bring in a really big horned whitetail buck to move the blood line to larger horns. These guys will shut a ranch down for 8 or 10 years just to let the herd mature, then open it for hunting. Deer farming is big biz here. And with some areas of central Texas holding 150 deer to the square mile, it's pretty important. Last motorcycle trip I made from Fort Worth to Leakey we counted 46 dead deer on the side of the road.

I know several folk who are horn hunters, the mounts are their main goal, they do eat the meat, but they only kill if they see a bigger rack than they have gotten so far. I have one customer who hasnt puled the trigger in 3 years because he hasnt see a larger rack. The last one he got, he may never pull the trigger again. But he goes every year. A guesstimate is he spends about $10,000 every year just hunting.

PT
Well if the meat gets eaten then that's my objection satisfied, I guess, though it still gives me a feeling of unease about the idea of something being magnificent and getting shot because of its magnificence.

But as I have said before I am well aware that even in our small country there is much countryside and wildlife in it that benefits from a few other species being hunted.

Lee

 

[perterra]

PT
Well if the meat gets eaten then that's my objection satisfied, I guess, though it still gives me a feeling of unease about the idea of something being magnificent and getting shot because of its magnificence.

But as I have said before I am well aware that even in our small country there is much countryside and wildlife in it that benefits from a few other species being hunted.

Lee

All the natural predators are pretty much gone due to urban encroachment or the the self serving extermination by many sheep and cattle raisers. So the same folks who buy any meats from a market have contributed to the extermination of predators they love

 

[Troubador]

All the natural predators are pretty much gone due to urban encroachment or the the self serving extermination by many sheep and cattle raisers. So the same folks who buy any meats from a market have contributed to the extermination of predators they love

Well it is certainly true that a large proportion of townies have been separated from the country for so many generations that they don't appreciate the challenges faced by either farmers or wildlife.

As a young zealot member of our Royal Society for the Protection of Birds about 40 years ago I huffed and puffed at Scottish sheep farmers and their stories about eagles taking lambs.

After 61 visits to the islands of Scotland and seen what a struggle it is for Scottish hill farmers to make a living off those hills I know that although eagle problems tend to be very local, these farmers can't afford to lose one lamb.

Predators like wolf and lynx were killed off centuries ago and some folks would like to reintroduce Lynx to help reduce growing deer populations and it sounds like a fine and exciting prospect but sheep graze right up to the edges of forests and some would be bound to get taken.

Going back to the extermination of predators in the States, I doubt whether many folks ever understood that the $ per pound for the beef they buy has anything to do with the extermination of anything.

Lee

 

[perterra]

Well it is certainly true that a large proportion of townies have been separated from the country for so many generations that they don't appreciate the challenges faced by either farmers or wildlife.

As a young zealot member of our Royal Society for the Protection of Birds about 40 years ago I huffed and puffed at Scottish sheep farmers and their stories about eagles taking lambs.

After 61 visits to the islands of Scotland and seen what a struggle it is for Scottish hill farmers to make a living off those hills I know that although eagle problems tend to be very local, these farmers can't afford to lose one lamb.

Predators like wolf and lynx were killed off centuries ago and some folks would like to reintroduce Lynx to help reduce growing deer populations and it sounds like a fine and exciting prospect but sheep graze right up to the edges of forests and some would be bound to get taken.

Going back to the extermination of predators in the States, I doubt whether many folks ever understood that the $ per pound for the beef they buy has anything to do with the extermination of anything.

Lee

I dont think they care too much as long as the price is cheap. I helped out on an urban bobcat tracking project in North Richland Hills, which is a suburb of Fort Worth. A bobcat was living in a creek bed, from following the GPS collar, it worked all the cat food left out at night by all the people who would not keep their pets in, worked the duck pond at the local golf course, and snagged a stray dog or cat when the opportunity presented itself. Then a new housing addition at one of the local lakes was in an area worked by bobcats, someones dog got snatched and people started squealing about it not being safe for pets and children and they needed to be trapped and moved. I listened to a wildlife biologist try to explain that they were in an urban island, and had no where else to go. It fell on deaf ears.

 

[NDhunter]

Well it is certainly true that a large proportion of townies have been separated from the country for so many generations that they don't appreciate the challenges faced by either farmers or wildlife.

As a young zealot member of our Royal Society for the Protection of Birds about 40 years ago I huffed and puffed at Scottish sheep farmers and their stories about eagles taking lambs.

After 61 visits to the islands of Scotland and seen what a struggle it is for Scottish hill farmers to make a living off those hills I know that although eagle problems tend to be very local, these farmers can't afford to lose one lamb.

Predators like wolf and lynx were killed off centuries ago and some folks would like to reintroduce Lynx to help reduce growing deer populations and it sounds like a fine and exciting prospect but sheep graze right up to the edges of forests and some would be bound to get taken.

Going back to the extermination of predators in the States, I doubt whether many folks ever understood that the $ per pound for the beef they buy has anything to do with the extermination of anything.

Lee

Lee:

I live in a rural farm state, and we have lots of room for everything, people
and much wildlife. This week I have seen many thousands of geese, and
3 bald eagles sitting together in a field feeding on carrion.

Last Saturday we had a family gathering, and our family visited a neighbor
who has sheep, and now lambing. We had several youngsters under age
4, and so it was fun to see the lambs running around.

This small farm has some large tree areas nearby, and the owner said that
the eagles that are migrating through right now are a threat to his flock.
He also had a donkey on site, as donkeys help fight off coyotes that also
want an easy meal.

Jerry

 

[sillyak]

All good points...and, yes, I agree most people don't really know what wildlife biologists really do.

Speaking of dissemination of info: to non-hunters, I think the high profile "tv personality" hunters like the Robertsons and Nugent (who are a bit cartoonish), do not promote their sport positively in general and instead only reinforce negative views already in place. They come off sadistic and twisted at times; Shooting with automatic weapons into a beaver pond simply because they hate the animal and this type of thing...Nugent is out of his mind period. I'm curious...how do the hunters in this thread view these "TV" personality hunters?

Are these hunting characters really any different than pretty much every other pop culture personality out there? They are all out of their minds and all the "reality" shows are staged at best and most are probably scripted.

My wife was watching a show on MTV. Although I do not know the name of the show, it featured a young woman who displayed narcissism to the point she was so far gone from reality one would think she was suffering from mental illness. She made Nugent and the Robertson family look humble.

The point being I wouldn't take pop culture hunters any more serious than I would any other pop culture icon. Does Kim Kardashian represent the beliefs of the average American?

I hunt for the same reason most on here watch birds. To escape the rat race for a few fleeting moments and connect with nature on a more basic level. I truly care about game as I'm sure all other ethical hunters do; yes, even trophy hunters. No I don't get kicks from taking an animal's life. I don't see how anyone who lives a modern life can hold a moral high ground over an ethical hunter. After all, how many animals died so you can drive a car to work?

 

[A2GG]

Are these hunting characters really any different than pretty much every other pop culture personality out there? They are all out of their minds and all the "reality" shows are staged at best and most are probably scripted.

My wife was watching a show on MTV. Although I do not know the name of the show, it featured a young woman who displayed narcissism to the point she was so far gone from reality one would think she was suffering from mental illness. She made Nugent and the Robertson family look humble.

The point being I wouldn't take pop culture hunters any more serious than I would any other pop culture icon. Does Kim Kardashian represent the beliefs of the average American?

I hunt for the same reason most on here watch birds. To escape the rat race for a few fleeting moments and connect with nature on a more basic level. I truly care about game as I'm sure all other ethical hunters do; yes, even trophy hunters. No I don't get kicks from taking an animal's life. I don't see how anyone who lives a modern life can hold a moral high ground over an ethical hunter. After all, how many animals died so you can drive a car to work?

If you are an ethical Hunter and don't get any joy out of killing
then you aren't the type of Hunter I'm judging. I stated in a previous post that my views mirror John C's (the OP)...I'm not against hunting per se.

Have to disagree with you about Nugent; nobody can make that guy look humble.

 

[Troubador]

No I don't get kicks from taking an animal's life.

I don't see how anyone who lives a modern life can hold a moral high ground over an ethical hunter. After all, how many animals died so you can drive a car to work?

Hey Sillyak

See how I have separated your paragraph into two sentences? Thats because these two things keep being conflated ie confused as if they are the same thing.

I think its the concept of getting a kick out of killing something that both me and GiGi feel uncomfortable with.

This is quite different from an animal being killed so that we can eat meat, or even for some other use, from which we benefit.

Lee

 

[Troubador]

Lee:

I live in a rural farm state, and we have lots of room for everything, people
and much wildlife. This week I have seen many thousands of geese, and
3 bald eagles sitting together in a field feeding on carrion.

Last Saturday we had a family gathering, and our family visited a neighbor
who has sheep, and now lambing. We had several youngsters under age
4, and so it was fun to see the lambs running around.

This small farm has some large tree areas nearby, and the owner said that
the eagles that are migrating through right now are a threat to his flock.
He also had a donkey on site, as donkeys help fight off coyotes that also
want an easy meal.

Jerry

Hya Jerry

Yes our lambs have arrived just in the last couple of weeks and the fields nearby are full of them. Its a great sign of spring.

We have lowland sheep farming, where the sheep graze green green grass in meadows and spend a lot of time on their bellies chewing.

But the sheep of many Scottish hill farmers wander mountainsides and bog landscapes nibbling grass if there is any, heather which there is a lot of, and browsing all manner of other plants. They don't spend much time on their bellies because they need to constantly find food in a really tough environment.

Lee

 

[jremmons]

If you are an ethical Hunter and don't get any joy out of killing
then you aren't the type of Hunter I'm judging. I stated in a previous post that my views mirror John C's (the OP)...I'm not against hunting per se.

I think most hunters, myself included, get the thrill not from the kill itself, but everything that leads up to that point. Everything from scoping an area, to sitting stoically becoming engulfed in nature, to lining up that perfect shot are invigorating experiences for many. I very, very rarely have run into those who get the thrill from the actual 'act' of killing (although they do exist, and they are an odd breed we in the DNR tend to watch more closely...)

 

[sillyak]

Hey Sillyak

See how I have separated your paragraph into two sentences? Thats because these two things keep being conflated ie confused as if they are the same thing.

I think its the concept of getting a kick out of killing something that both me and GiGi feel uncomfortable with.

This is quite different from an animal being killed so that we can eat meat, or even for some other use, from which we benefit.

Lee

I would agree. A lack of empathy for animals is a concerning trait; but, my point is just because someone hunts does not mean they lack that empathy. Certainly everyone in my circles have a respect for their quarry. Does pulling the trigger vs having someone else pull the trigger for you (and paying them for that service) reflect on someone's respect for animals. Does it show a lack of empathy? I sure don't see it that way.

 

[Pileatus]

I think people should educate themselves before jumping on their soapbox. Remember these folks the next time you see skies filled with waterfowl.
http://www.ducks.org/about-du?poe=hometxt

 

[jremmons]

I think people should educate themselves before jumping on their soapbox. Remember these folks the next time you see skies filled with waterfowl.
http://www.ducks.org/about-du?poe=hometxt

Ducks Unlimited helped us (well, actually I wasn't there yet but still...) restore 20ac of marsh throughout the property. National Wild Turkey Federation has donated over $100,000 to our property for equipment and seed to restore native prairie and create shrubland habitat. Quail Unlimited has also provided assistance. Not to mention the Sport Fish and Wildlife Restoration Act and hunting license sales (i.e. taxes on firearms/ammunition/fishing gear) that grants me money to have 2 (+1 seasonal) employees on my crew to maintain the 9000acs of habitat we manage for both game and non-game species.

 

[Troubador]

Does pulling the trigger vs having someone else pull the trigger for you (and paying them for that service) reflect on someone's respect for animals. Does it show a lack of empathy? I sure don't see it that way.

Agreed.

Lee

 

[A2GG]

I think people should educate themselves before jumping on their soapbox. Remember these folks the next time you see skies filled with waterfowl.
http://www.ducks.org/about-du?poe=hometxt

Most of us are just talking and sharing our perspectives.

I've donated to them before and still use their personalized address labels they sent me.

 

[A2GG]

Thanks LT for that clarification (post 191)

I still have conflicted personal feelings about eating meat. I tried to be a Vegetarian twice, but I felt like garbage on the diet. I am a low energy person to begin with (and have my own health issues) and eating no meat made me feel sickly over time. Maybe I was doing it wrong, but I tried twice and gave up. Some people can do it and I've known people who are healthy and vegan for many years. But, for me I just felt healthier when I went back to meat. I try not to over-do it and eat it when I feel I need to.

I don't like the idea of slaughterhouses and pretty sickened by the idea of millions of animals downed for our consumption per year, but our high human population is at the root of the problem (of over-consumption) and it's at the root of a lot of issues...but, that's another topic for Conservation threads.

 

[perterra]

I don't like the idea of slaughterhouses and pretty sickened by the idea of millions of animals downed for our consumption per year, but our high human population is at the root of the problem (of over-consumption) and it's at the root of a lot of issues...but, that's another topic for Conservation threads.

I think if everybody who can afford to did what they could, no matter how small, it would make a difference.