Gap in my optics - Low light usage but semi compact (sub $500) (1 Viewer)

[NJMS]

Hi All

First post here. I've been lurking around for ages. Love the wealth of knowledge here and helpful nature often displayed.

I'm looking for some bino's to fill a little gap in my system. Currently I have a pair of Leica 10x42 Ultravids (Non HD) and a pair of Swaro 15x56 NEU which I tripod mount.

About 8 years ago I sold a wonderful pair of Swaro SLC 7x30B bino's in an effort to gain funds for another interest. I've missed them ever since but they were weighty for the performance.

2 months ago I re-entered the world of optics online investigations and from those findings purchased a pair of Zeiss Terra ED 8x25 Compacts. Great little things and easy to carry, I'm very happy with the purchase for the intended use. OK in low light but I can see better with my ultravids for about 5-8min longer at last light (Obviously they are better but are also nearly 3 times the weight/bulk and more expensive) . Unfortunately my wife has taken a real shin to these as they fit in her handbag easily to carry to parks/concerts and they often reside on the kitchen window edge so we can easily view the birds in our backyard feeder and bath. That's fine, give me an excuse for more optics.....

So sorry for the dribble but I think it's important to know my base for chasing new bino's.

What I'm after is something between the 8x25 Terra ED's and the 10x42 Ultravids. This pair will see use on away from home trips and possibly the odd walk/hunt where I don't want to carry the larger optics.

Reading reading reading I've been doing. Wow some of the optics coming out now really seem to have stepped up, especially in the mid range market. Unfortunately I have no where locally to view quality optics at anything resembling a fair cost.

I'm after a pair of 7/8 x 30/32/36 bino's in the $500USD ($700AUD) or less range. Sub 22oz (600g), lighter would be nice but I have the 8x25 Terra's for the gram counting trips if need be. There are just so many options in this range, none which I'm familiar with or can test myself.

My main criteria would be low light performance. If I can get similar or better than my 10x42 Ultravids in the 8x30/32 size bino's, awesome. If not so be it as I understand the ultravids were alpha's a few years back and are larger objective. I've no idea how the newer options with ED / HD etc stack up against my current optics which seem to have been outdated (But perform very well IMO)

A wide FOV is a positive but not everything if the optics are superior. I've never been effected by CA in the past in some of the other optics I've owned/used. Internal reflections seem they pop up on some 8x30 bino's, that would not be ideal in a sunset situation for me.

I guess at the current top of the list would be the Maven B3 8x30. But these are actually over my budget with shipping to Australia @ $680 AUD shipped for a demo model (Damn). For amazing performance at this level I "may" give in for the Maven's but I'm reluctant with so many other options (All unknown). Maven's claims for light transmission are impressive. But I'm uncertain how that would stack up to brightness compared to my 10x42 Ultravids or against the competitive 8x30/32 mid priced field.

The Kite Lynx HD 8x30 is priced with shipping nearly identically to the Maven B3. (Would just buy a Maven B3)

The Nikon M7 8x30 looks like a great contender if the internal glare issues are resolved (Sounds like they are). If the brightness is comparable to the Maven's and up to task they are high on the list as they are considerably less expensive and locally available. I can order these online from within Australia for $445 AUD shipped which seems a great buy. Weight is impressively light.

Leupold Mojave BX-3 8x32 and Zeiss Terra ED look enticing and the price is similar to the Nikon M7 @ $460 AUD shipped. Will the 2mm larger objective make them brighter in low light though ?? Good lightweight on these too.

Meopta Meopro HD 8x32. I have positive past experience with a pair of Meopta's years back. But it seems some don't feel the Meopro range is best value. Meopta's light transmission figures seem good. But they are nearly 150g heavier than a M7/B3 format. Not a deal breaker if the optics are better. Price is around $580 AUD shipped.

Lower priced options would be the Vanguard Endeavor ED II 8x32 or Vixen Foresta DCF 8x32 both priced @ around $330/350 AUD Shipped.

Or chasing low light performance to I step into something like a Zen-Ray 7x36 ED2 ??

If I had the $$$ I'd opt for a Zeiss Conquest HD 8x32 or a Meopta Meostar. That is not an option though, grrrr.

 

[FrankD]

NJMS,

It certainly seems that you have done your research and I can't really find any fault with your line of reasoning and subsequent list of choices.

Now, having said that, I will mention the obvious. There isn't really any 8x30-something binocular that is good (in the grand scheme of things) in low light. The smaller objective diameter is the culprit at least in comparison to a 42 or 50 mm of the same quality level. The difference is there but it is "slight" in my opinion meaning just minutes of difference instead of some drastic "day/night" difference in optical performance.

The Maven is a bright 30 mm model in my experience and I certainly think you should consider it along with the Nikon M7. They pretty much fit all of your criteria. The Leupold Mojave falls into the same overall performance category as these two with the understanding that is a little bulkier and heavier.

Two other bins to consider.

If you are considering the Endeavor and the Foresta then you also have to consider the Sightron SII Blue Sky. Optically it punches way above its price point ($180 US) and its apparent contrast level make it more than suitable (in comparison to other 8x30-somethings) in lower light situations. Check out the Sightron review mega-thread that I posted for comparisons/testimonials. Weight is 17 ounces but it is a bit long for an 8x32.

Another that was recently brought up via some private messages I received is the Opticron Verano HD 8x32. Same $500 US price point range as the Maven with a similar field of view. It has a larger sweet spot than the Maven and better edges though it is a bit larger and heavier. I would rate low light performance at about the same. I had it out last night for my evening dog walk right before sunset and had no problem making IDs in the fading light.

Hope this helps some.

 

[jring]

Hi,

first of all, welcome to BF!

An 8x30/32 will not be the equal of your 10x42 in low light despite the same exit pupil - the larger objectives of the 10x42 let in more light which gets concentrated in the exit pupil. Also the exit pupil of the 10x42 is already slightly larger than the 4mm of an 8x32.

So if low light is the aim, I'd go for 7x35 or even 6x30. They tend to have wide fields too...

Regarding the Zen Ray there's Holgers rather positive review and some not so great stories about their support in the Zen Ray section.

http://www.holgermerlitz.de/zen7x36.html

The Maven B3 is also available in 6x30 iirc...

If you want an 8x32 to match or beat your Ultravids for your alpha spoiled eyes more or less inside the budget you have to chase the white elefant and search for a used pair of SE 8x32 - not waterproof but alpha views...

Joachim

 

[SivaL]

IMO there is no 8x32 binocular in the $500 range that can match the Nikon EII 8x30 http://nikon.com/products/sportoptics/lineup/binoculars/nature/x32x35/spec.htm. I have compared it to the Swarovski SV 8x32 extensively and have always been impressed by the image of the Nikon. It is only 575 gm and the huge FOV(154m/1000m) along with the 3D Porro view is stunning. For eyeglass wearers the eye relief might be short. For me the real FOV I see between the EII and SV 8x32 looks about the same when using sun glasses. The EII is not water proof, but quite a few of BF members have used these bins for many years without issues.

I bought mine new on eBay from a Japanese seller knowing very well that any problems with it will not be covered by Nikon warranty in the US. I am glad I bought a pair and plan to keep them for a long time.

 

[Gijs van Ginkel]

NJMS,
Considering your budget the KIte Lynx 8x30 would also be of interest, it is as far as I can see basically the same body as the Maven 8x30 and, considering the similar price range the optical properties may be not that much different (I have not investigated the Maven, so that is a guess).
Gijs van Ginkel

 

[NJMS]

Firstly thank you for the replies. Just so many options now a days compared to the alphas and cheap junk of years back.

I'm leaning towards the Nikon M7. Australian availability and the $230 lesser price for similar optical performance is a large gap to close on the B3/Kite range.

Mmm the 8x30 Nikon M7 vs Nikon E2 question. Sorry I have to ask now.....
Obviously weight and compactness are going to the M7. But without being able to compare just how big will the noticeable difference be in low light, center of field view from these two. I have never owned a porro pair of bino's. They appear bulky from the online pictures, maybe incorrect though.

I could probably work around the non waterproof issue. But dust maybe a problem on a non sealed optic. Gets pretty dusty in Australia some of the places I travel. Be disappointing to get particles internally down the track. I wonder where the line is drawn between dust and waterproofness.

Thank you for the suggestion on the Sightron SII 8x32. Looks like I have some reading to follow in that massive thread 😁.

 

[14Goudvink]

Optically the E2 might be better than your Leica But for your intended use I would not choose them: I would not like to expose them to much dust; they are ok in low light, but it is not their forte and they don't pack very small for travel. They are great allround bins, but you have to be a bit careful with them.

If I were you I would buy the Meopro over the M7: more of a 'real' binocular instead of a big compact, 2mm more apperture, better transmission, more solid build?

Good luck with your choice!

 

[jring]

Hi,

regarding the M7 vs E2 question - in low light it will be a toss up - maybe a tad brighter in E2 due to a few surfaces less but probably not visible.

If you can live with the E2s disadvantages (lack of water- and dustproofing and marginal eye relief with glasses), it's the second best solution optically in your budget due to unavailanility of the SE.

On the plus side for E2 are:

- widest field of any 8x pair on sale - super immersive afov
- proper glare and stray light control - unlike M7
- super easy view w/o glasses - unlike M7 with its occasional blackout problems.

The E2 is my most used pair for general birding.

Joachim

 

[SivaL]

Firstly thank you for the replies. Just so many options now a days compared to the alphas and cheap junk of years back.

I'm leaning towards the Nikon M7. Australian availability and the $230 lesser price for similar optical performance is a large gap to close on the B3/Kite range.

Mmm the 8x30 Nikon M7 vs Nikon E2 question. Sorry I have to ask now.....
Obviously weight and compactness are going to the M7. But without being able to compare just how big will the noticeable difference be in low light, center of field view from these two. I have never owned a porro pair of bino's. They appear bulky from the online pictures, maybe incorrect though.

I could probably work around the non waterproof issue. But dust maybe a problem on a non sealed optic. Gets pretty dusty in Australia some of the places I travel. Be disappointing to get particles internally down the track. I wonder where the line is drawn between dust and waterproofness.

Thank you for the suggestion on the Sightron SII 8x32. Looks like I have some reading to follow in that massive thread 😁.

The EII 8x30 is short and wide due to the Porro design as seen in the attached photo. If I tilt the EII vertically 90 deg in the picture the width of the bin equals the height of the SV 8x32 next to it. The EII handles very well for a Porro due to the small size. I personally haven't used them in a desert and don't plan to do it ever. I believe dust can be controlled by using scope covers such as these http://www.opticsplanet.com/quake-bushwhacker-optic-covers-amber-see-thru-size-5-12252-4.html. A tight fitting rain guard to cover the eyepieces and should also be good for dusty environs.

Optically the EII is close to the SV 8x32 and UVHD 10x42 in the picture that it baffles me sometimes as the price paid is a fourth of the Alpha bins.

 

[NJMS]

After deliberation I've ordered the Nikon Monarch 7 8x30 locally. Will arrive express early next week. I'll have a 30 day return policy and Australian Nikon warranty.

The Nikon E II while optically sounding fantastic I just don't feel the possibility of usage restrictions due to environment worth it. I can use the M7 when and where I like with little concern.

I'll post my thoughts on the M7 when it arrives. But I've high hopes for an excellence value to performance ratio. I still have my trusty and well used Leica Ultravids to use if the conditions will not be optimal for the little Nikon's. Figured the few hundred $$$ I've saved with the M7's over more expensive options will be handier for fuel to travel to other places to glass. Or ammo and plywood now Trump is in...... (sorry can't resist).

Thanks for the responses everyone.