gulls (2 Viewers)

[lou salomon]

what do you think about hannu koskienen's 2nd winter gull here:

http://www.elisanet.fi/hj.koskinen/Possible Caspian Gull_HML_20080228.html

strongly patterned tail, a hint of a p10 mirror, structurally it may fit cachinnans but i think this is surely less than straightfort?

 

[Daniel Martin]

What a great set of pictures!

 

[lou salomon]

http://www.birdforum.net/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=186383

what is this ??!

common gull seems to be obvious but why does it feel wrong??? a 3cy? black reaches down to p3 and mantle colour looks pale but well, could be strong light. am i the only one who feels uncomfortable?

 

[p wolf]

http://www.birdforum.net/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=186383

what is this ??!

common gull seems to be obvious but why does it feel wrong??? a 3cy? black reaches down to p3 and mantle colour looks pale but well, could be strong light. am i the only one who feels uncomfortable?

I agree Lou, it looks odd and that bill band is very well defined. On the other hand it's the wrong shape for Ring-billed and unfortunately i have never seen a pic of a proven hybrid between Common and R-b, even if it is one of the more likely hybrids. The black only runs to p4 by the way.

cheers, pim

 

[lou salomon]

all right, i feel better - have to confess that i counted that mirror on p8 as wingtip of a shorter(!) p7 - bullsh...B :-O B

 

[lou salomon]

a hard bit again from crete: http://www.gullsofcrete.blogspot.com/

a tiny 3cy heuglini???

that YLG to the left of it in the first image is also a weirdo.

 

[JANJ]

a hard bit again from crete: http://www.gullsofcrete.blogspot.com/

a tiny 3cy heuglini???

that YLG to the left of it in the first image is also a weirdo.

Graellsii/heuglini - most probably heuglini due to location!

I have to study this site closer, some interesting gulls there.
The one standing next to the heuglini candidate is to me at the moment a ?

JanJ

 

[lou salomon]

that site is a goldmine in difficult gulls.. we could go analyzing through many birds there.

attached, as delightment, some cachinnans pics from transilvania (shot by joszef szabo senior, 29.03.2008 in sanpaul, eastern transilvania)

cheers and a good new week,

 

[lou salomon]

there were 3 birds of the same age (3cy). the only other ind. photographed looked like this: funny enough i think this is now a michahellis!; interesting that it already has red on gonys at this age.

while the shape of bills look very similar in both birds (pretty blunt tipped in the cachinnans!), many things in my opinion favour YLG for this one: the overall dark underwing, also the even distribution of dark pattern, lack of p10 mirror, some dark feathering on belly, and especially the all dark outer primaries (underwing) while in the same aged cachinnans you can clearly make out the paler bases, in p10 like a triangle on inner web. and (although one of the most variable things) advanced bill colouring in the YLG.

these are crops as you can see, that's why they aren't really sharp.
what do you mean, jan, pim, ies, andrew...?

cheers

 

[JANJ]

Are the last two from March as well?
In that case they are 3cy (lack of mirror on p10, and white tips to primaries) - which would make the yellow bill more in order for michahellis - as would jizz.

http://www.netfugl.dk/pictures.php?id=showpicture&picture_id=19165

JanJ

 

[lou salomon]

makes me feel more comfortable, yes they were both photoed on 29.3. in a region where large gulls aren't common. the third in the group remains the "big unknown" - no pic. still there are many ylg at this age showing pretty white underwing.

 

[lou salomon]

makes me feel more comfortable, yes they were both photoed on 29.3. in a region where large gulls aren't common. the third in the group remains the "big unknown" - no pic. still there are many ylg at this age showing pretty white underwing.

like this

 

[lou salomon]

heads

heads

 

[lou salomon]

en plus

 

[lou salomon]

not all ind. of 2nd winter caspian (2nd gen. primaries) have a p10 mirror:

http://www.netfugl.dk/pictures/birds_user_uploads/20821_UU_7013_3.jpg

hunt of GBBG (LBBG blamed for this practique):

http://www.birdforum.net/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=188455

jan, you asked about this one earlier:

http://www.netfugl.dk/pictures.php?id=showpicture&picture_id=17686

i really wonder which exclusive features make it a cachinnans, though everything fits (colour tone, bill, etc.), but i've seen very similar michahellis, see e.g. here, bird 13:
http://www.abdn.ac.uk/~geo399/oddities.htm and this:
http://www.birdforum.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=31115&d=1128016635


heads in 373 and 374 look quite obvious to me (who has selected them), poss. jan knows all the pics and the rest is reluctant - why?

 

[AStevenson]

Ok Lou, I'll go for it and get them wrong!

373 - micha, ?heuglini?, herring or micha, micha subad, last almost looks like LBB.

374 - micha, cach, cach.

Am I even close!?

Cheers,
Andrew

 

[AStevenson]

Oh, and what do you make of this?

A

 

[lou salomon]

Ok Lou, I'll go for it and get them wrong!

373 - micha, ?heuglini?, herring or micha, micha subad, last almost looks like LBB.

374 - micha, cach, cach.

Am I even close!?

Cheers,
Andrew

cheers andrew, that's 3 and 1/2 from 8, i'll give you the subad micha (4) and the well-spotted LBBG (5). :t: now go for the rest :-O

 

[lou salomon]

Oh, and what do you make of this?

A

my feeling says rather 2nd winter/summer caspo with unusually marked tail (exists) than a herring with p10 mirror. is this a recent pic?

:smoke: :eat:

 

[JANJ]

lAndrews gull looks like a Herring Gull. Seems like p10 is not fully grown - and if this is right, time of year might be estimated to approx. late autumn. The mirror on p10, prominent white tipped primaries and - what it looks like - pure grey inner primaries suggest a 3rd winter type - while tail pattern, pattern of coverts and primary coverts might suggest a 2nd winter. For now argenteus (which might be more advanced than argenteus, ddepending on latitude of course.

JanJ