As I get older I am finding that image shake is becoming more of a problem. For this reason I mostly use my Leupold 6x30 binoculars.The low power helps reduce image shake. Isn't it about time that more manufacturers produced quality low powered binoculars of this specification. They are relatively small & lightweight and are far superior in use to most compact binoculars having a reasonably large exit pupil and width of field.
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In praise of 6x30 binoculars! (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter mgsphilip
- Start date
Pinewood
New York correspondent
Hello mgsphilip,
I concur. Here, in the States, there have been a few 6x30 glasses including the Yosemites, of which I believe you wrote, and the Eagle Optics 6x32. We also have the Zen Ray 7x36 ED2, which scores well on FOV, brilliance and colour quality. Although the six power binoculars will be a bit more stable, seven is noticeably better than eight.
Happy bird watching,
Arthur Pinewood :hi:
I concur. Here, in the States, there have been a few 6x30 glasses including the Yosemites, of which I believe you wrote, and the Eagle Optics 6x32. We also have the Zen Ray 7x36 ED2, which scores well on FOV, brilliance and colour quality. Although the six power binoculars will be a bit more stable, seven is noticeably better than eight.
Happy bird watching,
Arthur Pinewood :hi:
Kevin Conville
yardbirder
One of my favorite bins are my Fujinon AR-SX 6x30s in spite of their being individual focus. They are just a pleasure to use. I think a broader selection of 6 and 7x bins would be welcome.
KorHaan
Well-known member
I wish 6x or 7x mag would be enough for me, but I do need more reach.
I agree with Matt that the Canon IS's give that reach, my current favourite being the 18x50 IS from Canon. The sheer body mass coupled with the image stabilisation causes no more shake than a 7x50 porro would give me. Great long-distance viewing,
I enjoy them so much.
Regards,
Ronald
I agree with Matt that the Canon IS's give that reach, my current favourite being the 18x50 IS from Canon. The sheer body mass coupled with the image stabilisation causes no more shake than a 7x50 porro would give me. Great long-distance viewing,
I enjoy them so much.
Regards,
Ronald
I used to like 6X and 7X but lately I am reverting back to 8X as my favs. I have a pair of 10X25 Nikon LXL's and you know what I kinda like em. They really bring stuff in close for that detailed look. Clearest pair at the edge I have ever had too. Sweet.
Mgsphilip,
I agree. Spent some time behind a pair of Leupold Katami 6x (bought for my Dad) and have a pair of 6x Yosemites. Love the wide field and less shake never hurts. I think more 6x-6.5x will be coming along this year. In the tight woods there's nothing better.
If I had to, I could live with 6x as a primary binocular.
Cheers
I agree. Spent some time behind a pair of Leupold Katami 6x (bought for my Dad) and have a pair of 6x Yosemites. Love the wide field and less shake never hurts. I think more 6x-6.5x will be coming along this year. In the tight woods there's nothing better.
If I had to, I could live with 6x as a primary binocular.
Cheers
David Swain
Well-known member
Interesting thread. I've been birding exclusively with Yosemite 6x30s since last summer, and while in many situations they clearly have limited reach and a relatively small "picture," they have begun to teach me (perhaps by necessity) better birding skills, and I have come to appreciate the difference between image detail and image size.
Case in point was a situation during Christmas Bird Count. My partner and I had to identify 3 dark ducks in a narrow strip of dark water on the far side of a frozen, snow-covered pond, a good 150 yards away. It has just stopped snowing, so the light was awful. I could just barely make out light-colored bills, grayish heads, darker bodies, but distrusted what I saw because, frankly, they were still *far* away. I borrowed her EL 8.5s expecting a revelation, but surprise, could make out no better detail and actually had more difficulty finding sharp focus (likely a diopter difference). They looked closer and had that nice Swaro clarity, but I couldn't see them *better.*
Like many who use budget gear, I constantly second-guess myself, wondering if more magnification, or better glass, or whatever, would help me resolve difficult IDs, but ultimately it comes down to interpreting what you see, and I find my 6x30s show me a great deal of what I need in surprisingly diverse circumstances. I do like birding the woods, and they are just stunning for chasing kinglets and woodpeckers around.
My reasons for liking this size, then, have to do with developing birding skills and not image stability (although I can appreciate that when only one hand is free). I suspect I would be happiest with a 7x for general use, and it is nice to see that venerable power being revived.
Case in point was a situation during Christmas Bird Count. My partner and I had to identify 3 dark ducks in a narrow strip of dark water on the far side of a frozen, snow-covered pond, a good 150 yards away. It has just stopped snowing, so the light was awful. I could just barely make out light-colored bills, grayish heads, darker bodies, but distrusted what I saw because, frankly, they were still *far* away. I borrowed her EL 8.5s expecting a revelation, but surprise, could make out no better detail and actually had more difficulty finding sharp focus (likely a diopter difference). They looked closer and had that nice Swaro clarity, but I couldn't see them *better.*
Like many who use budget gear, I constantly second-guess myself, wondering if more magnification, or better glass, or whatever, would help me resolve difficult IDs, but ultimately it comes down to interpreting what you see, and I find my 6x30s show me a great deal of what I need in surprisingly diverse circumstances. I do like birding the woods, and they are just stunning for chasing kinglets and woodpeckers around.
My reasons for liking this size, then, have to do with developing birding skills and not image stability (although I can appreciate that when only one hand is free). I suspect I would be happiest with a 7x for general use, and it is nice to see that venerable power being revived.
low and steady rocks!
evenin' ya'll:
well i guess i have to count myself a fan of the low and steady look also, having 2 6-bys and two 7's, with one more on the way, a Meade Montana 7X42; just couldnt resist the price- a big texas thanks to the guys over on the "binocular bargain" thread! check out the eyelens on those rascals!!
but as others have mentioned, beware of IS acclimation; recently in a cold 39-degree xmas count morning, basically polar conditions for us s. texans, the wind and temp clearly favored, for me, the 10X42L Canon IS bins over the 7-by FL's. switching back and forth, i found i have become so sensitized to magnified tremor of any magnitude that even at 7X the rock and roll, exacerbated by the weather, was just too much to take. this despite the fact the FL's had a brighter view. the effect is less noticed in our usually moderate temps, but mentally i still find myself zeroing in on what seems to be an inordinate amt. of unsteadiness.
i do on occassion pull out the katmai 6ers, and stuff em in a pocket when birding has to be an ancillary activity.
to untrain/retrain my new eye-brain mindset, i suppose, i would have to just put the IS down for an extended period.
for nonIS nocs, 7X still is my favorite glass, esp the FL, with its humongous depth of foucus and illuminated FOV. the only non-IS 10X i have been able to hold steady enough for extended use is the 10XSE. what a special hunk of melted sand and metal that one is!
regards,
UTC
evenin' ya'll:
well i guess i have to count myself a fan of the low and steady look also, having 2 6-bys and two 7's, with one more on the way, a Meade Montana 7X42; just couldnt resist the price- a big texas thanks to the guys over on the "binocular bargain" thread! check out the eyelens on those rascals!!
but as others have mentioned, beware of IS acclimation; recently in a cold 39-degree xmas count morning, basically polar conditions for us s. texans, the wind and temp clearly favored, for me, the 10X42L Canon IS bins over the 7-by FL's. switching back and forth, i found i have become so sensitized to magnified tremor of any magnitude that even at 7X the rock and roll, exacerbated by the weather, was just too much to take. this despite the fact the FL's had a brighter view. the effect is less noticed in our usually moderate temps, but mentally i still find myself zeroing in on what seems to be an inordinate amt. of unsteadiness.
i do on occassion pull out the katmai 6ers, and stuff em in a pocket when birding has to be an ancillary activity.
to untrain/retrain my new eye-brain mindset, i suppose, i would have to just put the IS down for an extended period.
for nonIS nocs, 7X still is my favorite glass, esp the FL, with its humongous depth of foucus and illuminated FOV. the only non-IS 10X i have been able to hold steady enough for extended use is the 10XSE. what a special hunk of melted sand and metal that one is!
regards,
UTC
falcondude
Well-known member
Having tried several pairs of 6x, I agree they are rather stable with such a long magnification. But I feel more comfortable with 7x-8x binoculars for a good compromise of magnification and large sweet spot of FOV. I may change my position once I reach to my age of collecting SS benefit.
spitfiretriple
Well-known member
6x: Agreed.
Though my rationale is less about the image shake, and more about the pupil size with small bins. I'd like to see a 6x25 or even 5x25. I've seen a few 6x25s on the net, nothing in the shops. Of course, the general public thinks that the bigger the magnification, the better the binocular. The manufacturers know what the public wants, and supply it to them. But, given the size of the overall global market, you'd think there would be a sufficient market amongst cognoscenti such as ourselves for one or two manufacturers to produce and sell such lower-mag bins.
Though my rationale is less about the image shake, and more about the pupil size with small bins. I'd like to see a 6x25 or even 5x25. I've seen a few 6x25s on the net, nothing in the shops. Of course, the general public thinks that the bigger the magnification, the better the binocular. The manufacturers know what the public wants, and supply it to them. But, given the size of the overall global market, you'd think there would be a sufficient market amongst cognoscenti such as ourselves for one or two manufacturers to produce and sell such lower-mag bins.
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Kevin Purcell
Well-known member
Pushing down the magnification of pocket bins has long been a theme here both from a shake and exit pupil arguments.
7x28 and 6x25 seem like almost ideal bins for a lot of uses but as you say there's a lot of "turning it up to 11" with bigger being better.
The only 7x28 out there is the US Army spec'ed M24 7x28 IF "personal bin" from WEEMS & PLATH and FUJI (and perhaps others). But there is no civilian CF version. Aside from the 14x stabilized M25 all Military standard bins are 7x.
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3723/is_200702/ai_n18622297/
A bit strange given the current interest (say with Vortex and Leupold and now Meopta) with the 6x or 6.5x. But that interest hasn't dropped to the pocket bins (< 30mm objective)
Now if they stamped exit pupil size on the bin then we might see some change
7x28 and 6x25 seem like almost ideal bins for a lot of uses but as you say there's a lot of "turning it up to 11" with bigger being better.
The only 7x28 out there is the US Army spec'ed M24 7x28 IF "personal bin" from WEEMS & PLATH and FUJI (and perhaps others). But there is no civilian CF version. Aside from the 14x stabilized M25 all Military standard bins are 7x.
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3723/is_200702/ai_n18622297/
A bit strange given the current interest (say with Vortex and Leupold and now Meopta) with the 6x or 6.5x. But that interest hasn't dropped to the pocket bins (< 30mm objective)
Now if they stamped exit pupil size on the bin then we might see some change
FWIW, I recently had a chance to try a (now discontinued) Fujinon FMT-SX 6x30. I have to say the quality of the view just blew me away. It seemed as fine as the 7x50 and that is saying something. Both of these, by day, beat the 8x30 and 10x50 for sharpness and clarity. Low power, big exit pupils, and narrow apparent fields make it easy to be good, I think.
Ron
Ron
Kevin Conville
yardbirder
Yeah, I'd like to have a pair of those. They're quite hard to find. My AR-SX are the non flat field version but are still spectacular. I let my neighbor use them for a bit and he was speechless. I paid $100. for them in pristine condition and they are without a doubt the best $100. bins I'll probably ever have.
I'd like to see more 6 or 7 x options with the big 3. The 7x42 is a compelling format but its weight often defeats its purpose. EL 7x36 anyone?
Matt
spitfiretriple
Well-known member
A 900' FOV? Wow!
That's impressive, even if you take the low magnification into account.
4x30 gives a pupil of 7.5mm, which is probably way too large to be of benefit - to my eyes at least. I reckon a 5mm pupil is a pretty good compromise.
And they look a bit bulky - if a mfr could put the same performance into a less bloated package, for the same discounted price, I'd probably snap them up on the spot. Of course, it could be that they have to be so bulky to contain the large prisms etc necessary to achieve the FOV.
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chris lewis
Chris
One bino that gets overlooked is the Minox BD 6.5x32 I.F. I have use one for about 4 months in all situations including some night sky observations. It gives a flat image that is contrasty and primarliy sharp to the edge. They are just so easy to to use - as I get older hand shake is more noticable but with these the image is steady and I tend to see more. The depth of field is impressive and I never need to adjust the IF focus. The FOV is 8 degrees and the ER is 19 mm. They are robustly built and similar in style to the Leica 8x32 Trinovid BN's. They are Japanese sourced. They weight 20.8 Oz./ 580 grams. Unsure of there current availability however as they dont appear to be listed on the current Minox web site.
Chris
Chris
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Kevin Purcell
Well-known member
The Minox BD 6.5x32 IF are popular with Eastern hunters (especially over at 24hourcampfire). They are no longer being made and are now difficult to find. They didn't make a CF version.
The IF is a really problem for birders (for stars ... not so much ). Even hunters tend to be looking out a distance so anything beyond 40m is in focus which is great for them. Very similar to the military use of 7x IF bins. But for birders most of the time you are birding inside 40m at targets that move towards and away from your.
Not so good is the IF and the FOV really should be wider than 8 degrees e.g. Zen Ray 7x36 has more than 9 degrees. Heck you can get 8 degree 8x bins these days (even inexpensive ones).
That's the problem with most 6ish bins out there they don't really have as much FOV as I think they should have. To go to lower magnifications in my opinion you want to gain on both lack of shake and FOV.
On the SHOT show thread we mentioned Meopta 6.5x32 as new CF bin which should appear in the near future. That might be a good place to start especially if the optics are as good as the current 8x32 but again the FOV is only 440 feet (8.3°).
The IF is a really problem for birders (for stars ... not so much
). Even hunters tend to be looking out a distance so anything beyond 40m is in focus which is great for them. Very similar to the military use of 7x IF bins. But for birders most of the time you are birding inside 40m at targets that move towards and away from your.Not so good is the IF and the FOV really should be wider than 8 degrees e.g. Zen Ray 7x36 has more than 9 degrees. Heck you can get 8 degree 8x bins these days (even inexpensive ones).
That's the problem with most 6ish bins out there they don't really have as much FOV as I think they should have. To go to lower magnifications in my opinion you want to gain on both lack of shake and FOV.
On the SHOT show thread we mentioned Meopta 6.5x32 as new CF bin which should appear in the near future. That might be a good place to start especially if the optics are as good as the current 8x32 but again the FOV is only 440 feet (8.3°).
