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Large young gull, Arabian Gulf (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter AJDH
- Start date
Steven Astley
Well-known member
hefty bill. juv Great-black headed (Pallas') gull maybe?
best seeing what janj and the other gull people think.
best seeing what janj and the other gull people think.
Last edited:
Jane Turner
Well-known member
Shouldn't Pallas' have pale inner primaries and pale secondary panel like a Med Gull?
I'm not really qualified to comment on this but this isn't what I imagine a Pallas's Gull to look like! The bill seems the wrong shape for starters - quite chunky with a pronounced gonydeal angle. Even on juvenile, I'd have thought the greater coverts should be a bit paler and greyer than this.
http://www.orientalbirdimages.org/b...D=948&Bird_Image_ID=7914&Bird_Family_ID=&p=13
Looks a bit more like a Yellow-legged Gull to me, although there are lots of other possibilities in the area that I'm in no position to dismiss!
http://www.orientalbirdimages.org/b...D=948&Bird_Image_ID=7914&Bird_Family_ID=&p=13
Looks a bit more like a Yellow-legged Gull to me, although there are lots of other possibilities in the area that I'm in no position to dismiss!
Steven Astley
Well-known member
Looks like more typical herring type gull now, to me it looks like a lbb with a strong gonydeal angle hence yellow-legged?
gerdwichers8
Well-known member
I think its somewhere in cachinans
Edit: I have to spell it with 'nn'
Edit: I have to spell it with 'nn'
Last edited:
Gentoo
Guest
My guess is either YLG or Caspian. In the second photo, the bill appears rather longish suggesting Caspian. Imature large gulls in that part of the world are out of my jurisdiction however and tend to look more like one another than American species. I'll wait for JanJ to point some more things out.
Jane Turner
Well-known member
It still has dark inner primaries!
gerdwichers8
Well-known member
Jane Turner said:
..which isnt absolute; see the right hand
JANJ
Well-known member
Hi all!
Adrians gull is a fresh juvenile (in standing bird looks as there are some second generation greyish scapulars on top at the end of the lesser coverts) and not a Palla´s Gull, which looks like this:
http://clanga.com/images/full/P1256.JPG
http://clanga.com/images/full/P1249.JPG
http://clanga.com/images/full/P1236.JPG
and not a LBBG (Baltic Gull) due to structure and bill size, compare with these:
http://www.elisanet.fi/antero.lindholm/public_html/fuscus/tara.htm
and not a Yellow-legged Gull due to underwing pattern and no visible moult in wing coverts (pitty though that we don´t get to see the upperparts and tail pattern more clearly!
So, Caspian (eastern), barabensis or heuglini are the choices we have to deal with here I think, which makes it a bit tricky.
Identification of these three is a challenge, western Caspian, usually with slenderer bill and smalish looking eye and at this time of year usually with more second generation coverts (we can´t see the upperparts), but some eastern apparently show fully unmoulted juvenile wing to the end of the year. However the palish underwing and axillaries certainly point to Caspian (mainly western type) but some heuglini and barabensis similar.
Heuglin´s Gull is a late moulter, and therefore at this time of year in fresh juvenile plumage, with at most some 1st winter scapulars, although variation has to be considered, and juvenile barabensis (Steppe Gull) together with heuglini (Heuglin´s Gull) is in my oppinion the two main suggestions to this gull. Heuglin´s Gull usually has a rather slender bill (some males rather bigger billed, as the subject gull). The upperwing is similar to LBBG (Baltic), but notice the slightly paler inner primaries, more in line with heuglini compared to Baltic
Check structure, bill and underwing and upperwing in these supposed
heuglinis from Oman in Dec:
http://www.tarsiger.com/images/Jniemi/larheu30copy72.jpg
http://www.tarsiger.com/images/Jniemi/larheu36copy72.jpg
http://www.tarsiger.com/images/Jniemi/larheu48copy72.jpg
Supposed barabensis Oman January:
http://www23.tok2.com/home/jgull/OmanGulls/12b04.JPG
A juv/first winter putative Heuglin´s Gull from Denmark last year:
http://www.birds-of-denmark.dk/sibiriskmaage.htm
The bottom line (although I dare say my gutt feeling say´s heuglini or possible barabensis) Adrian is that there will be no possitive ID on your gull, as you gotten used to by now with large white-headed gull from your area!
The above said is a suggestion, since ID on these are very difficult, sometimes/often impossible due to lack of knowledge.
A real thrill to see your fine images, and of this gull!
JanJ
Adrians gull is a fresh juvenile (in standing bird looks as there are some second generation greyish scapulars on top at the end of the lesser coverts) and not a Palla´s Gull, which looks like this:
http://clanga.com/images/full/P1256.JPG
http://clanga.com/images/full/P1249.JPG
http://clanga.com/images/full/P1236.JPG
and not a LBBG (Baltic Gull) due to structure and bill size, compare with these:
http://www.elisanet.fi/antero.lindholm/public_html/fuscus/tara.htm
and not a Yellow-legged Gull due to underwing pattern and no visible moult in wing coverts (pitty though that we don´t get to see the upperparts and tail pattern more clearly!
So, Caspian (eastern), barabensis or heuglini are the choices we have to deal with here I think, which makes it a bit tricky.
Identification of these three is a challenge, western Caspian, usually with slenderer bill and smalish looking eye and at this time of year usually with more second generation coverts (we can´t see the upperparts), but some eastern apparently show fully unmoulted juvenile wing to the end of the year. However the palish underwing and axillaries certainly point to Caspian (mainly western type) but some heuglini and barabensis similar.
Heuglin´s Gull is a late moulter, and therefore at this time of year in fresh juvenile plumage, with at most some 1st winter scapulars, although variation has to be considered, and juvenile barabensis (Steppe Gull) together with heuglini (Heuglin´s Gull) is in my oppinion the two main suggestions to this gull. Heuglin´s Gull usually has a rather slender bill (some males rather bigger billed, as the subject gull). The upperwing is similar to LBBG (Baltic), but notice the slightly paler inner primaries, more in line with heuglini compared to Baltic
Check structure, bill and underwing and upperwing in these supposed
heuglinis from Oman in Dec:
http://www.tarsiger.com/images/Jniemi/larheu30copy72.jpg
http://www.tarsiger.com/images/Jniemi/larheu36copy72.jpg
http://www.tarsiger.com/images/Jniemi/larheu48copy72.jpg
Supposed barabensis Oman January:
http://www23.tok2.com/home/jgull/OmanGulls/12b04.JPG
A juv/first winter putative Heuglin´s Gull from Denmark last year:
http://www.birds-of-denmark.dk/sibiriskmaage.htm
The bottom line (although I dare say my gutt feeling say´s heuglini or possible barabensis) Adrian is that there will be no possitive ID on your gull, as you gotten used to by now with large white-headed gull from your area!
The above said is a suggestion, since ID on these are very difficult, sometimes/often impossible due to lack of knowledge.
A real thrill to see your fine images, and of this gull!
JanJ
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AJDH
Well-known member
JANJ said:
Thanks for the effort you put in Jan. I did go back in the afternoon to see if there were more gulls around and possibly some adults. Unfortunately the tide was out and I could not get close to anything for fear of becoming bogged down. If I get a chance, I'll look again tomorrow but I'm going to Bahrain in the morning and when I get back the tides may not be favourable.
