Lens for Bird photography (1 Viewer)

[SRoyC]

Hi friends

Presently I use D90 with 70-300 VR. The lens is pretty good when stopped down a bit, around f7.1 o f8, but I have been considering for some time to get something with a better reach, which I find very limiting for the present one.

First I thought about Sigma 150-500 OS, but then I found almost all users complaining that the lens is appreciably soft within 400-500 range, more so when it is wide open.

Second consideration was Nikon AF-S 300 f4+Kenko Pro 300 1.4x TC, acceptable range but no VR. f4 would become f5.6. And there is no advantage of composition just by altering the focal length as in case of a zoom. Furthermore I do not think this combo will allow me to hand hold.

Finally, I considered 80-400 VR. Pretty light weight, good VR, but very slow focus as it is sscrew driven. So BIF shots I think will be out of question.

So the professional photographers here would like to recommend which one that would give me best Image quality and price ratio? I intend to produce acceptable Professional Quality image. Unfortunately I have no resource to buy a 500 VR and there is almost no chance of getting it unless I get paid well regularly through assignments.
In a nutshell, image quality is my paramount consideration, but other factors are important too.

Hope I have been able to express my dilemma.

Thank you

 

[gvca1]

Not a professional, but here's my amateur take:

I recommend your second choice: Nikkor 300 f/4, TC 1.4. I think you COULD handhold this combo, but I use the 300 f/4 from tripod or monopod pretty much exclusively. Since I usually use it from a tripod, the lack of VR is not a deal breaker. I haven't tried the Kenko TC, but with the Nikkor TC 14E II, the 300 works well. The Nikkor lens foot gets bad reviews, but some folks think it has been somewhat upgraded since first introduction. I suggest the Kirk or RRS replacement collar, etc. etc.

 

[SRoyC]

Thanks so much gvca1 for your input.
Is there any other option available beside those I have listed? I think there is an unanimity on this matter that Prime is the one to get....
Can I use the 300f4+TC combo on a Monopod with ball head?
I would welcome other views and suggestions...

 

[stoop]

I recommend the AF-S 300F4 as well. I use it with a D300 and Nikon TC 1.4II.

It can be used handheld if needed or with a ballhead and monopod.

Welcome to the Nikon dilema. One with VR would be nice but it is very clear as is.

 

[Chalky W]

Could your budget stretch to a second hand Sigma 300mm f2.8 EX DG HSM?

A very capable lens by all accounts and will take a 1.4x TC without any trouble maybe even a 2x. That should cover all the bases as far as reach is concerned.

 

[jascha777]

Hi SRoyC, I use the 300AFS with the Nikon 1.4 on a D7000 and never
use a tripod or monopod-to be honest I think that subject movement is more of
a killer than the lack of VR,virtually all of my pics in my gallery are with this
combo if you want to have a look
Best wishes,
Mark

 

[SRoyC]

Thanks for your suggestions...

Getting a Sigma 300mm f2.8 would be tough. I have even considered Nikon 80-200 f2.8, but I found that this lens does not work well TCs...

 

[SRoyC]

Thanks Mark, we posted almost simultaneously I think, so I missed it earlier...
I loved the shots you have uploaded here, they are so beautiful. The first one that caught my eye was that of crested tit. Did you take majority of these shots with this combo and hand holding? Btw, can I safely opt for the Kenko Pro 300 TC? That would save me a few precious bucks. I thought Kenko Pro 300 1.4x TC s are optically identical to Nikkor TCs at half of the price

 

[jascha777]

Hi again,
yes, all of these shots are handheld. I cant speak from any
personal experience regarding the Kenko 1.4 but as you say,
many folks who have both suggest there is very little difference
between them-I'd still strech to the Nikon if you can though-its
one of the best bits of kit they make!
best wishes,
Mark

 

[gvca1]

Yes, you can certainly use the 300 f/4 on a monopod with ballhead, but the ballhead is not really necessary. I find a head which allows fore/aft tilt alone to make more sense on a monopod:
http://acratech.net/product.php?productid=10
http://www.manfrotto.us/monopod-tilt-top-swivel-tilt-head-90?alt=1

I think sports shooters commonly use a monopod just stuck on the lens foot, with no head of any kind in between...

Jim

 

[Helios]

Another vote for the 300/4 afs. I've always handheld this lens (except for macro) and its never been an issue. Autofocus is a little slow to be honest, especially with the teleconverter, but you can still get some nice BIF shots.

 

[flanken]

Of the above, the Nikon 300mm f/4 AF-S with the 1.4x Kenko TC is an excellent combo. Another slightly more expensive option to consider is the Sigma 50-500mm f/4.5-6.3 OS, which is supposedly optically better than the 150-500 at longer focal lengths, with faster AF.

Of the above lenses, I've used the 300mm f/4 AF-S with the Kenko, and the Sigma 50-500 OS. The 300/4 used to be my go-to lens for birding, but I started using the Sigma a lot more after buying it; its autofocus speed is faster than the 300 f/4's, especially when the 300 has a teleconverter attached. Optically, the 300 f/4 is better without the teleconverter, but with the teleconverter it's about equivalent to the 50-500mm. The 50-500 is much better for BIF shots. I shoot both of these lenses handheld.

One thing I did notice with the Kenko TC is that it does decrease contrast when shooting into bright light, and that some reviews have found the Nikon TC-14E to be optically superior. Still, it's quite a good teleconverter for the price, and works well with a much wider variety of lenses.

Another option that you might want to consider if you're not into fast action shots are older AI-S primes, such as the 300mm f/2.8 and 400mm f/3.5. I have an ancient-looking 400mm f/3.5 that works great as a manual-focus lens, has superb optics, and is still hand-holdable for short periods. With a modified TC-16A AF teleconverter (which may be hard to find), it becomes a semi-autofocus 640mm f/5 lens; flight shots are possible even with moderately fast birds with this setup.

 

[Musoman]

Flanken - i have pretty much the same 400mm f3.5 but mine is the Ai not the Ais, not much difference i know.

I'd heard that you dont need to modify the TC16a - just that you need to focus manually to near enough, then the AF will take over. Sort of like Semi-AF :smoke:

Does your TC16a have some mods done to it ?

 

[flanken]

I don't think there's much of a difference between AI and AI-S.

I think I read somewhere that unmodified TC-16As will work with the D2-series, but not with most other Nikon bodies. I can't say for sure, as I bought my TC-16A already modified, and it works great on my D7000. I got it from this seller on eBay, who regularly sells modified TC-16As for sale: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Modifed-Nik...era_Lenses&hash=item43acffa044#ht_9201wt_1163. I think the modification is a rewiring of the pins.

With both the modified and non-modified TC-16A, the lens is only semi-AF as you note, as the teleconverter's elements have a relatively short range of movement. What I usually do is manually focus until I overshoot slightly, and then engage the AF, which usually locks right on. As long as you get within a few meters of accurate focus at typical bird photography distances, it'll likely be within the range of the TC-16A's focus ability. For me, it significantly reduces the number of shots where I almost, but didn't quite nail focus using manual focus.

 

[Musoman]

Thanks for that

I think you're right in that D2x doesnt need the mod, so an unmodded TC 16a should be cheaper than a modded one.

Interestingly, the Mir website indicates that the TC 16a was for lenses f2.8 and faster, and only upto 300mm FL

"This converter was recommended for use on Nikkors up to 300mm in focal length with widest apertures of at least f/2.8"

How do you find the metering .. ok ? Or EV +/- needed ?

 

[h14nha]

Could your budget stretch to a second hand Sigma 300mm f2.8 EX DG HSM?

A very capable lens by all accounts and will take a 1.4x TC without any trouble maybe even a 2x. That should cover all the bases as far as reach is concerned.

A good suggestion here. I picked mine up for a very reasonable price used. Its heavy compared to my 100-400 but a monopod takes care of that. It has to be the best value for money tele out there, I can't think of better..........

 

[RMWD]

Hi friends

Presently I use D90 with 70-300 VR. The lens is pretty good when stopped down a bit, around f7.1 o f8, but I have been considering for some time to get something with a better reach, which I find very limiting for the present one.

First I thought about Sigma 150-500 OS, but then I found almost all users complaining that the lens is appreciably soft within 400-500 range, more so when it is wide open.
Thank you

I am not a pro but I use pro lenses.

I think the 150-500 is an excellent next step. It's not too heavy, has good VR and my copy was sharp as a tack at F8 and I always had it at 500mm. It gave me a lot of pleasure and firmly established bird photography as a serious hobby. Take a look at the 3 flickr pages at the link below for samples of this lens with a D90. VR is very useful and you can't beat reach.
D90 images
http://www.flickr.com/photos/brandon_birder/page26/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/brandon_birder/page25/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/brandon_birder/page24/

The 300mm F4 is brilliant lens but has no VR and less reach. TC's give magnification but don't extend reach in my opinion.


Another option left of field is to use your 70-300mm on a Nikon1 V1 with an FT1 adaptor. It turns it into a 810mm for lens. My D7000 broke for 3 weeks and at the same moment my V1 arrived. Have a look at the V1 set on my link below. It really is a great combination. Focusses very quickly and light to carry round. I have been delighted with it's performance and IQ which imo is not far off a D90.
Nikon V1 set
http://www.flickr.com/photos/brandon_birder/sets/72157628774050455/

Good luck.

 

[RMWD]

Other suggestions

Thanks so much gvca1 for your input.
Is there any other option available beside those I have listed?
I would welcome other views and suggestions...

Yes there is. See my previous post about the Nikon1 V1 with your existing 70-300mm lens.

 

[flanken]

Thanks for that

I think you're right in that D2x doesnt need the mod, so an unmodded TC 16a should be cheaper than a modded one.

Interestingly, the Mir website indicates that the TC 16a was for lenses f2.8 and faster, and only upto 300mm FL

"This converter was recommended for use on Nikkors up to 300mm in focal length with widest apertures of at least f/2.8"

How do you find the metering .. ok ? Or EV +/- needed ?

An unmodded TC-16a could very well be cheaper - I think I've seen a fair number of them up for sale.

It is interesting that the Mir website notes those limitations. The TC-16a seems to work fine on the 400mm f/3.5, and I usually close the aperture down to f/5.6 (i.e., effectively f/9 through the teleconverter) when shooting, with no problems.

I've found the metering generally okay with the TC-16a, and haven't noticed any consistent exposure adjustment needed.

It's a fun little device overall. Notably, I've found it also works with D type lenses, although only in the same semi-AF mode since there's no electronic passthrough to the lens. G type lenses don't seem work, at least on the D7000, since I haven't been able to get the camera to open the aperture without using the aperture ring when the TC-16a is mounted.

I've taken a number of shots with the 400 3.5/TC-16a combo, but here's the only one I've processed and uploaded thus far:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/48282656@N00/6794080203/

 

[bluedubius]

An unmodded TC-16a could very well be cheaper - I think I've seen a fair number of them up for sale.

It is interesting that the Mir website notes those limitations. The TC-16a seems to work fine on the 400mm f/3.5, and I usually close the aperture down to f/5.6 (i.e., effectively f/9 through the teleconverter) when shooting, with no problems.

I've found the metering generally okay with the TC-16a, and haven't noticed any consistent exposure adjustment needed.

It's a fun little device overall. Notably, I've found it also works with D type lenses, although only in the same semi-AF mode since there's no electronic passthrough to the lens. G type lenses don't seem work, at least on the D7000, since I haven't been able to get the camera to open the aperture without using the aperture ring when the TC-16a is mounted.

I've taken a number of shots with the 400 3.5/TC-16a combo, but here's the only one I've processed and uploaded thus far:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/48282656@N00/6794080203/

Would love to see more of your shots with the TC-16a and the 400 f/3.5. I just bought a TC-16a to use with my 400 f/3.5 and a Nikon D2X. Will be an interesting combo to try out.