New Ivory-billed Woodpecker info (2 Viewers)

[jogresh]

I'd be interested in what people think of stills from the video. It does seem to be a very large woodpecker with a white hindwing. However, my laptop is small and cheap..

 

[MikeInPA]

Those who say it should be a no brainer with modern cameras to capture an IBW should perhaps Google Pileated Woodpecker in flight. Pileated Woodpecker in flight

A quite common bird in woodlands around here. I see them in my backyard on occasion though I’ve never got a photo of one, identifiable or otherwise and believe me I’ve tried.

The inflight images of birds with a clear blue background are plentiful. How many images are there of birds flying in front of a background of trees? Very, very few. Some of those look as they they were of a perched bird taking off so the lens should be pretty much pre focused.

Even the very latest camera equipment will struggle at times to get a focus lock on a bird against a background of trees.

I’m mostly indifferent to wether it is extinct or not and have not entered into any of the previous thread on the subject. On the subject of photographs I do have an interest, but what do I know? I’m just a troll according to some. 🤣

 

[Mono]

What is it about this blooming woodpecker?

Either everyone calms down a bit or yet another Ivory-billed thread gets locked.

Ivory-billed even shows up in my predictive text?

 

[MikeInPA]

Lock it down.

 

[Hauksen]

Hi,

I'd be interested in what people think of stills from the video. It does seem to be a very large woodpecker with a white hindwing. However, my laptop is small and cheap..

I believe this would be the time stamp for the stills:

It's not clear to me what amount of postprocessing was done to the stills shown in the presentation, as the absence of well-defined pixels indicates that it's not raw data.

However, even if it were raw data, digital cameras don't actually produce a pixel-accurate picture, but use contrast-enhancement and image compression algorithms that process entire areas, changing individual pixels as the camera sees fit. Many cameras have some amount of configurability in that regard, and DSLRs typically provide a function to export "RAW" data, which is not necessarily free of such artifacts, but intended to keep these at a minimum.

In my opinion, the assessment of light and dark areas on the picture of a bird that has only so few pixels is problematic due to the more or less inevitable image enhancement done by the camera itself.

It would probably be more informative to look at the blown-up video with the bird fixed in the centre of the screen and scaled so that it remains at the same size for the entire time it's on screen. The human brain is quite good at extracting 3D information from moving 2D pictures, and having a sequence of images potentially could reduce the impact of the camera's image enhancement artifacts, in my opinion.

(By the way, Harrison in the video mentions a 4K video camera as a planned future acquisition, so I think we can probably conclude the one that produced the pictures we're looking at did not offer 4K resolution.)

Regards,

Henning

 

[jogresh]

You've just reminded me of where i watched the video of the unidentified flying object - your earlier post on page 1.
The stills as they're presented in the post above this one are, to me, a bit of a mess and i cant make anything out.
However, pressing pause during the slowed down video (around 40 min 40 sec onwards) seems in some frames to show some interesting features.

 

[KenM]

Those who say it should be a no brainer with modern cameras to capture an IBW should perhaps Google Pileated Woodpecker in flight. Pileated Woodpecker in flight

A quite common bird in woodlands around here. I see them in my backyard on occasion though I’ve never got a photo of one, identifiable or otherwise and believe me I’ve tried.

The inflight images of birds with a clear blue background are plentiful. How many images are there of birds flying in front of a background of trees? Very, very few. Some of those look as they they were of a perched bird taking off so the lens should be pretty much pre focused.

Even the very latest camera equipment will struggle at times to get a focus lock on a bird against a background of trees.

I’m mostly indifferent to wether it is extinct or not and have not entered into any of the previous thread on the subject. On the subject of photographs I do have an interest, but what do I know? I’m just a troll according to some. 🤣

I certainly endorse Mike’s comments regarding the degree of difficulty in getting a “lock” on a bird flying fast against a line of trees.
If you then put that tree line in a reduced lighting area of a “million acres” of shadowy bottom land swamp forest, stand up the erstwhile hunter in a “rocking” canoe, with gaitor’s cruising by waiting for him to fall in, and mozzies sucking the life’s blood out of his eye lids…he’d have as much chance of getting a “good shot”……as finding an IBW! 🤣

“My patch of dry underfoot woodland” is c165 times smaller than the million acre swampland that Mike mentions, and I struggle to find various species (often unsuccessfully) that are at low incidence in the forest.

Some of which were more “confiding” years ago…ie when they were more plentiful unlike now, scarcer and more secretive with their movements.
There may well be a correlation between low incidence of occurrence and a corresponding change in activity leading towards “more stealthy” behaviour at “local level” e.g…Hawfinch, Greenfinch, Bullfinch even House Sparrow also Lesser spotted Woodpecker and of course Goshawk.

As for IBW like most people I would be overjoyed at the prospect of it being refound, indeed it would be a momentous moment for the world and it’s media, however…….😩

Cheers

 

[Hauksen]

Hi Ken,

I certainly endorse Mike’s comments regarding the degree of difficulty in getting a “lock” on a bird flying fast against a line of trees.
If you then put that tree line in a reduced lighting area of a “million acres” of shadowy bottom land swamp forest, stand up the erstwhile hunter in a “rocking” canoe, with gaitor’s cruising by waiting for him to fall in, and mozzies sucking the life’s blood out of his eye lids…he’d have as much chance of getting a “good shot”……as finding an IBW! 🤣

"Difficult" is not "impossible". Regardless of how one assesses the percentages, using a DSLR would have yielded a greater-than-zero chance to get better pictures than Harrison actually did. So, not using one was a bad call, unless of course the low-qualtiy pictures he presented can actually convince the US administration to change their mind about the Ivory-Billed Woodpecker being extinct.

And "a bird flying fast against a line of trees" doesn't accurately describe the situation. The bird was flying away from the observer over a channel lined by trees, so maybe when the bird was 80 m away, the camera, if it might have mis-focused, would focused on a random tree just 100 m away - that's outside what you'd normally would consider depth of field, but it certainly would be better than the very low standard set by Harrison's current set of pictures.

(Note that in Harrison's video, it appears that nothing at all in the picture is actually sharp. That would indicate the camera probably had focused on something much closer, like the bow of the canoe ... you might be aware that's just what had happened in the "Luneau" video as well.)

Regards,

Henning

 

[Rotherbirder]

My eyesight must be far worse than I thought! The interpretation of the enlarged, highly pixelated still images in the video exhibits an incredible degree of imagination. Detailed, worthwhile discussion of the extent of black and white on the wings is only possible if a recognisable wing - or even bird - can be isolated from the digital morass! If the shots were posted on the BF ID forum, the OP would be drummed out of town without ceremony! (With apologies for the overuse of exclamation marks; it's just so exasperating).

RB

 

[400+birder]

The comments from the usual know-it-alls reveal that they have never stepped foot into the habitats of the Ivory-billed Woodpecker and have no idea what it's like to search for this bird. It's ignorant to suggest that those who have reported these birds and/or obtained evidence have engaged in fraud or have any motive other than trying to help document a critically endangered (and remarkably elusive) species in the interest of conservation. Anyone with a brain would realize that esteemed ornithologists such as John Fitzpatrick and Geoff Hill (both recipients of the highest honor in the field of ornithology) would never participate in such nonsense. For those who are interested in the Ivory-billed Woodpecker and its conservation and are capable of thinking independently, a paper describing the five most compelling events that have been captured on video and other issues relevant to the conservation of this bird are described this paper that recently came out.

Thank you Mike, I was not aware of this article. John

 

[raymie]

Thank you Mike, I was not aware of this article. John

An article that he wrote himself! This is not someone else's paper he's linking to.

 

[400+birder]

I work on the recovery project of a bird that was formally declared extinct so I've got a bit of a professional interest in this & I've been trying to keep up to date since the recent crop of sightings started about 20 years ago. Most of its been, is nonsense too harsh a word?, but this is definitely worth a look before dismissing it.

Its an interesting video, its very long & pretty repetitive but I can see why people think it's an Ivory-billed Woodpecker. I don't know what it is & I definitely don't think the video is good enough to identify the bird, especially not something as important as an Ivory-bill but I'm happy to keep an open mind about it until someone can come up with a better explanation.

Some of the video analysis is nonsense, claiming to be able to see a crest & white line down the neck from the chosen frames is just wishful thinking & I'm not convinced the parts of the wing I'm being told I'm seeing are even the right surface of the wing sometimes. I'd like to look at it all again, I'm pretty sure there is a frame that shows at least the front part of the bird much better than the two he's chosen to analyse, maybe there's a reason for that. But plumage wise, its at least pretty close to an Ivory-bill & appears to be wrong for a Pileated Woodpecker, its just a shame its such poor quality. The biggest thing I'm struggling to understand, if it is an Ivory-bill, is why can't you see the big ivory bill?

I think there's been many things to be critical about over the years but claiming the fella should have got definitive photos from this sighting seems harsh - he would have definitely missed the first, closer pass & would have maybe got a distant shot of it disappearing, but more likely just a blurry photo of trees so I think he did exactly the right thing.

Bobby would be interested in any work you offer on this video, including mentioning interesting frames. Not sure about the bill, but if I had to choose between the words "absorbant" and "reflective" for this part, involving light on it, I would choose "absorbant." If you look at a specimen's bill, it is rough. The feathers of this species, on the other hand, are noted to be iridescent.

 

[400+birder]

To be fair, he had just spent 3 days waiting at some trees where there was the scaling they consider sign of IBW so he wasn't just paddling around & he then obviously went searching where the bird was headed & found more trees with scaling so I think he is trying to get better pictures - he also says the scaling is too high up for a trailcamera to pick anything up, so again they are trying different methods. Why all these methods haven't resulted in proof or repeated sightings in the same area is a different question, & I think we probably agree what that reason is likely to be.

Personally, I think these people genuinely think the bird is still around & they're getting enough dodgy photos to keep their dream alive. Like I said, I work with a bird considered extinct for years, despite locals saying they were still around, and it took 10 years of extensive searching by a similar group of enthusiasts, & 10 years of being dismissed by everyone else, before they got definitive proof so I do have a bit of sympathy for the searchers

What species do you work with?

 

[Hauksen]

Hi John,

What species do you work with?

Are you still interested in the head-mounted camera rig?

I proceeded a bit beyond my design shown here ...

Improved video cam setup for Ivory-Billed Woodpecker

Hi John, I hope to be able to come up with a rig that allows reliable aiming, in which case the 40 mm will give much better image quality. A shorter lens will obviously be less sensitive against aiming a bit off, so without an aiming aid, a case for a wider angle can probably be made. I...

www.birdforum.net

... but I believe for this to make sense one needs the 4K camera with the long lens, and the small field-of-view associated with that version requires a genuine red-dot sight instead of the hardware crosshairs I was envisisioning , which probably brings the rig out of the budget range you have available.

Do you think Harrison would be interested in the binocular-mounted version?

Improved video cam setup for Ivory-Billed Woodpecker

Hi John, I hope to be able to come up with a rig that allows reliable aiming, in which case the 40 mm will give much better image quality. A shorter lens will obviously be less sensitive against aiming a bit off, so without an aiming aid, a case for a wider angle can probably be made. I...

www.birdforum.net

I know you thought it was not a good solution overall, but I'd argue that at least in Harrison's actual encounter, with the bird flying more or less straight away from him for about five seconds, this would have been just perfect.

Regards,

Henning

 

[Dave Boyle]

What species do you work with?

The Chatham Island Taiko - I don't want to hijack this thread so I'll just say despite much bigger odds of being able to rediscover the bird & without any modern technology to help it only took 10 years to get definitive proof, which is what I really struggle to understand if the Ivory-bill is still out there. But I do sympathise with the people out looking

 

[jurek]

I wonder how many birders visited the same areas, say, 3 years before and after the 'sighting'. To make it simple, a number of ebird reports within the 5 km radius. Anyone can provide the number?

 

[400+birder]

The Chatham Island Taiko - I don't want to hijack this thread so I'll just say despite much bigger odds of being able to rediscover the bird & without any modern technology to help it only took 10 years to get definitive proof, which is what I really struggle to understand if the Ivory-bill is still out there. But I do sympathise with the people out looking

What is the habitat and the density of birds within? Both probably made the rediscovery easier than the IB's.

 

[400+birder]

Hi John,



Are you still interested in the head-mounted camera rig?

I proceeded a bit beyond my design shown here ...

Improved video cam setup for Ivory-Billed Woodpecker

Hi John, I hope to be able to come up with a rig that allows reliable aiming, in which case the 40 mm will give much better image quality. A shorter lens will obviously be less sensitive against aiming a bit off, so without an aiming aid, a case for a wider angle can probably be made. I...

www.birdforum.net

... but I believe for this to make sense one needs the 4K camera with the long lens, and the small field-of-view associated with that version requires a genuine red-dot sight instead of the hardware crosshairs I was envisisioning , which probably brings the rig out of the budget range you have available.

Do you think Harrison would be interested in the binocular-mounted version?

Improved video cam setup for Ivory-Billed Woodpecker

Hi John, I hope to be able to come up with a rig that allows reliable aiming, in which case the 40 mm will give much better image quality. A shorter lens will obviously be less sensitive against aiming a bit off, so without an aiming aid, a case for a wider angle can probably be made. I...

www.birdforum.net

I know you thought it was not a good solution overall, but I'd argue that at least in Harrison's actual encounter, with the bird flying more or less straight away from him for about five seconds, this would have been just perfect.

Regards,

Henning

I would just contact him, and maybe post your ideas on the three Facebook Ivorybill pages (that can be quite professional).

 

[Bewick]

The Truth is Out There.............I want to Believe................etc............etc

That's the issue... people want it to be not extinct and therefore believe in every piece of 'evidence' that people come out with.

 

[MikeInPA]

That's the issue... people want it to be not extinct and therefore believe in every piece of 'evidence' that people come out with.

Lost your sense of humor?

😆

I’ve stayed out of all of the previous threads on the IBW mainly because there’s a lot of people getting bent out of shape in both the for and against arguments. Take this latest one for example, I’m labeled ‘almost a liar’ for using a common English language word that somebody else used.

As I’ve said previously, I would love it to be out there and I’m glad that there are believers still searching for it. The detractors who claim that there should be definitive photos by now are talking out of their arse. If an IBW were to land in my backyard the chances of me getting a photo are about 10:1 against and I’m not paddling a canoe in mosquito/alligator/ cottonmouth infested swamp.

Cheers

Mike