New Zeiss Victory SF !!!!!! (3 Viewers)

[Troubador]

Lee, please tell Zeiss to go ahead and build my 15x54 HTs.
I have a hunch you have some influence with them. :t:
No proof though. ||

Unfortunately I have no proof of this either :smoke:.

But because you ask so nicely I will give it a go at Bird Fair this weekend :t:.

Have you tried the Conquest HD 15x56?
It is pretty good.
And with the change you could buy me a beer or three :king:.

Lee

 

[HighNorth]

And with the change you could buy me a beer or three :king:.

Lee

Just don't make any ill-advised remarks after those three beers, okay?

HN

 

[Troubador]

Just don't make any ill-advised remarks after those three beers, okay?

HN

Me?
MOI?
MICH???

Ill-advised remarks?? :eek!:
Never! :-O

Lee

 

[brocknroller]

"I find your posts not only boorish but full of insulting and libelous nonsense that is totally inappropriate for a public birding forum. I wish the owners of the site would enforce higher standards of conduct," said the Pot to the Kettle.

 

[Chosun Juan]

Everything old is new again ......

Hallelujah! You've finally seen the light, brother! I hope The Defenders who also thought I was wrong about this read your post.

The question then remains why did Swaro threaten only Nikon and not other companies that make open bridged roofs including Bushnell, Zen Ray, Votex, Hawke and now even Zeiss (whose product was most definitely designed to compete with the SV EL)?

The only conclusion is that they were afraid the EDG I with its field flatteners and open bridge could compete against their soon to be launched SV EL, and the others couldn't. Flash forward to 2015, I think Dobler probably has too much "dirt" on Swaro for them to go after Zeiss for the SF.

Brock

OMG this is old stuff. I saw the light over a year ago.

Do try and keep up.

SF does not contravene EL patents.

Lee

Brock

Dear friend I feel that was an ill-advised remark, but then who on BF hasn't made those from time to time? But to respond more fully:

I don't believe for one moment that Dobler would use a former employers patented tech.

Given Dobler's former employment by Swarovski I have no doubt that both Zeiss and Swarovski have checked SF for this down to the last nano-detail.

The fact that Swarovski haven't taken a case forward against SF speaks for itself.

Brock, you really should stop banging your head against this particular brick wall. One of these days you might hurt yourself.

Why didn't Swaro sue those other brands?

Did they ever sue anybody? Did the Nikon event ever take place?

I would think (I am no expert on this) that before sueing anybody you would need to decide if the 'copiers' model would really take any significant sales. If they are in a totally different price bracket for example the answer would be no, so why spend the money to pursue them? And then there is the judgement about whether your patent has not only definitely been infringed but sufficiently to make the legal costs worthwhile.

Lee

.

Holy Mackerel!! o

Are you boys still shuffling deck chairs on the Titanic?! :eek!: :storm: :gn:

I would have thought there were much bigger fish to fry ......... :egghead:

Like .......

Q. Has Zeiss resolved the systemic manufacturing, component supply quality, and operational problems (well to my eyes and ears, anyway, .... allegedly! as supposedly revealed by the cross-sectional photos of dropped broken binoculars, reports of dodgy focusers, blue peripheral rings, 'wetzlar' ring visibility variability, loose armour, wrong sized objective covers supplied, and internal dirt specs, etc, etc ...... ???? :cat:

Q. If so, then what serial numbers are affected, and when do the hypothetical 'good ones' start? ...... :h?:

Q. Will any current units get 'accidently' dropped at the UK Birdfair to test the hypothesis??

Q. Will Zeiss even bother to turn up with demo units at this year's Oz Birdfair? (and does Cannon even know, or care! that it's on?!

Q. Is it any surprise that I predicted in the V-e-r-y F-i-r-s-t- P-o-s-t of this thread that Swarovski would consult Brock before embarking on any Legal Action??!! 3 :'D

Jeez - how did you binonerds miss this?!

New Zeiss Victory SF in 8x42, and 10x42.

92% transmission (but not more *teehee*), wide-angle fields, decent ER, and a triple bridge design that's guaranteed to have Swaro's Legal Eagles running straight to Brock for advice !!

Feast your eyes peeps
http://www.zeiss.com/sports-optics/en_de/landingpages/world-s-best-birding-binoculars.html
http://www.zeiss.com/sports-optics/...-binoculars/victory-sf-binoculars.html#models
http://www.zeiss.com/content/dam/Sp...s-article/Press-Information_VICTORY-SF_EN.pdf

Chosun :gh:

 

[Sagittarius]

Unfortunately I have no proof of this either :smoke:.

But because you ask so nicely I will give it a go at Bird Fair this weekend :t:.

Have you tried the Conquest HD 15x56?
It is pretty good.
And with the change you could buy me a beer or three :king:.

Lee

Lee, if I ever fly across the pond, I will gladly buy you as many beers as you can drink. B
I have thought about the 15x56 Conquest and just might end up with one.
Especially, since it looks doubtful on the 15x54.
But I would appreciate it if you would ask at Bird Fair. :t:

 

[jan van daalen]

.

Holy Mackerel!! o

Are you boys still shuffling deck chairs on the Titanic?! :eek!: :storm: :gn:

I would have thought there were much bigger fish to fry ......... :egghead:

Like .......

Q. Has Zeiss resolved the systemic manufacturing, component supply quality, and operational problems (well to my eyes and ears, anyway, .... allegedly! as supposedly revealed by the cross-sectional photos of dropped broken binoculars, reports of dodgy focusers, blue peripheral rings, 'wetzlar' ring visibility variability, loose armour, wrong sized objective covers supplied, and internal dirt specs, etc, etc ...... ???? :cat:

Q. If so, then what serial numbers are affected, and when do the hypothetical 'good ones' start? ...... :h?:

Q. Will any current units get 'accidently' dropped at the UK Birdfair to test the hypothesis??

Q. Will Zeiss even bother to turn up with demo units at this year's Oz Birdfair? (and does Cannon even know, or care! that it's on?!

Q. Is it any surprise that I predicted in the V-e-r-y F-i-r-s-t- P-o-s-t of this thread that Swarovski would consult Brock before embarking on any Legal Action??!! 3 :'D




Chosun :gh:

Good morning sunshine,

So you finally returned to the thread you once started a couple of hundredthousend views ago!!!

Zeiss should hire you as their marketing consultant (and more).

Good to have you back.

Jan

 

[David in NC]

Me?
MOI?
MICH???

Ill-advised remarks?? :eek!:
Never! :-O

Lee

Fawlty Towers Flashback!

"Pretentious??? Moi???" 3

 

[Chosun Juan]

Birdfair Updates ????

Have any of our UK bro's and sista's attended Birdfair, and gleaned any eyeball reports, unbiased AND arms-length facts, or opinions on this bin?

Did anyone A/B it against new accepted forum king the Swarovski 10x50 SV? :king:

Interested to know whether the history of problems experienced thus far have finally been put to bed :gn:
ie. Has Zeiss resolved the seemingly systemic manufacturing, component supply quality, and operational problems (well to my eyes and ears, anyway, .... allegedly! as supposedly revealed by the cross-sectional photos of dropped broken binoculars, reports of dodgy focusers, blue peripheral rings, 'wetzlar' ring visibility variability, loose armour, wrong sized objective covers supplied, and internal dirt specs, etc, etc ...... ???? :cat:
If so, then what serial numbers are affected, and when do the hypothetical 'good ones' start? ...... :h?:
Also, did any current units get 'accidently' dropped at the UK Birdfair to test the hypothesis??


...................... All ears .......... :cat:

Chosun :gh:

 

[Pileatus]

"I find your posts not only boorish but full of insulting and libelous nonsense that is totally inappropriate for a public birding forum. I wish the owners of the site would enforce higher standards of conduct," said the Pot to the Kettle.

Ah, but the entire post is available at:
http://www.birdforum.net/showpost.php?p=3265472&postcount=2931
where I wrote...

"Once again, do you have proof Swarovski "threatened" Nikon over an open bridge? What is your evidence for such a claim?
Your "conclusion" is unfounded, speculative in nature and probably libelous.
What is the "dirt" Herr Dobler has on Swarovski? Again, more libel.
I find your posts not only boorish but full of insulting and libelous nonsense that is totally inappropriate for a public birding forum. I wish the owners of the site would enforce higher standards of conduct."

Brock,
You really need to revisit your journalistic ethics and up your game. Also, you never responded. Why is that?

 

[David in NC]

CHOSUN! Can we take you off the "missing persons" list??? :t: Good to see you!

 

[Chosun Juan]

Have any of our UK bro's and sista's attended Birdfair, and gleaned any eyeball reports, unbiased AND arms-length facts, or opinions on this bin?

Did anyone A/B it against new accepted forum king the Swarovski 10x50 SV? :king:

Interested to know whether the history of problems experienced thus far have finally been put to bed :gn:
ie. Has Zeiss resolved the seemingly systemic manufacturing, component supply quality, and operational problems (well to my eyes and ears, anyway, .... allegedly! as supposedly revealed by the cross-sectional photos of dropped broken binoculars, reports of dodgy focusers, blue peripheral rings, 'wetzlar' ring visibility variability, loose armour, wrong sized objective covers supplied, and internal dirt specs, etc, etc ...... ???? :cat:
If so, then what serial numbers are affected, and when do the hypothetical 'good ones' start? ...... :h?:
Also, did any current units get 'accidently' dropped at the UK Birdfair to test the hypothesis??


...................... All ears .......... :cat:

Chosun :gh:

.

Any News ?? :news:

Also , ........ what price a 10x50SF ?! :cat:


Chosun :gh:

 

[Chosun Juan]

Have any of our UK bro's and sista's attended Birdfair, and gleaned any eyeball reports, unbiased AND arms-length facts, or opinions on this bin?

Did anyone A/B it against new accepted forum king the Swarovski 10x50 SV? :king:
Interested to know whether the history of problems experienced thus far have finally been put to bed :gn:
ie. Has Zeiss resolved the seemingly systemic manufacturing, component supply quality, and operational problems (well to my eyes and ears, anyway, .... allegedly! as supposedly revealed by the cross-sectional photos of dropped broken binoculars, reports of dodgy focusers, blue peripheral rings, 'wetzlar' ring visibility variability, loose armour, wrong sized objective covers supplied, and internal dirt specs, etc, etc ...... ????
If so, then what serial numbers are affected, and when do the hypothetical 'good ones' start? ...... :h?:
Also, did any current units get 'accidently' dropped at the UK Birdfair to test the hypothesis??
...................... All ears .......... :cat:

Any News ?? :news:

Also , ........ what price a 10x50SF ?! :cat:

Seriously! Any News? :news:

The Silence is Deafening !! |:x| Bit of a worry when even the FanBoi's are silent .......

Lee - are you the proud owner of an SF yet?? [EDIT] I see from another thread that you do - are these loaners? or have you forked out the hard earned at full whack? (no deal wangling

I hope the issues with the x42 SF are solved ...... the x32's, and x50's are a looooooooong way off at this rate!

And did anyone directly (or as directly as possible) compare the SF with the Swaro 10x50 SV ???????? :cat:


Chosun :gh:

 

[Houdiny]

Hi Chosun!

I've compared both SF10x42 and SV 10x50 directly in a shop. While I liked both very much, the bigger FOV, the reduced weight and overall better ergonomics of the SF made it the (to my eyes) clear winner.
I've bought the SF 10x42 and couldn't be happier with it. No problems so far!

 

[Chosun Juan]

Hi Houdiny,

Thanks for the feedback! :t:
You are one of the few here to have eye balled the two, and the first that I recall in my brief catchup skimming that has jumped for the SF ...... a few others seem to prefer the SV ..... :cat:

Personally, I find the 4.2mm exit pupil of the 10x42 format a bit dim, and for my eyes at the moment even the 5.1mm of the Swift Audubon 8.5x44ED that I used to have would run out of optical brightness grunt at sunset. However the Swaro 10x50SV is prolly the finest view I've seen so far -- just pipping the Zeiss 8x42 HT (whose ergonomics I really did not like). Impractical as it may be, I solved the weight issue by hoisting a handy Swaro x56mm SLC before every viewing! now that really made the weight disappear

I can understand the appeal of greater Fov, and have always found it welcome at least until the 70 degree Afov point provided the field isn't compromised ..... |8.|

I'm hoping that Zeiss (or Swaro) will come out with a high end lightweight 9x50 whose 5.6mm EP and 133m (400ft) Fov would be ideal for me, 850grams (30oz) max and we'd have a winner! )

I'm glad that you are happy with your choice, but I thought a few of our UK friends (David, Lee, Tim etc, etc) might have piped up by now after the Birdfair ...... In fact, since Lee seems to have got one he no longer is at the forefront of speculatin' and accumulating marketing one liners! :eek!: (I know he'll be along presently to wax lyrical but I'm more interested in how many red flags have been taken down ....... for good!

Until our own Birdfair rolls around and I get to hopefully hands-on these beasts, I will eagerly await further feedback from the Empire! :king: In the meantime I will strangely be boiling a billy over in Dennis's ramshackle camp ----- where there's smoke there's fire :smoke:

Chosun :gh:

 

[Troubador]

In fact, since Lee seems to have got one he no longer is at the forefront of speculatin' and accumulating marketing one liners! :eek!: (I know he'll be along presently to wax lyrical
Chosun :gh:

You called?

I figured folks have heard enough from me and didn't reply to your call for comments so other folks had room to post their views.

There were quite a few SFs around necks walking around the Fair and asking folks for their thoughts on it got a variety of views most of which could be summed up as 'bright, sharp and neutral and feels so light'.

Up here on the Western Isles the big FOV is lovely because the seascapes and landscapes are so huge. I was eyeballing some gulls the other day and caught something at the edge of the view and it turned into a Cory's Shearwater which was nice to see so close into land, and demonstrated the worth of FOV. The speed of focus is definitely quicker than HT which is hard work when swapping between close insects and distant birds.

BTW you were right to call me out on the 25% bigger FOV than EL comment. Being on holiday I don't have my papers with me to check my calc but the note in my laptop says 24.8% so it looks like I fat-fingered typing it up. Do forgive.

Lee

 

[Chosun Juan]

Haha Lee! You naughty Boi !! You know it's a lot closer than that - like 5 to 10% ...... It's the Afov that counts ...... otherwise we'd all be toting 7 powers or less with 480+ fields .......

Gotta go ...... L8R


Chosun :gh:

 

[dalat]

It's the Afov that counts ...... otherwise we'd all be toting 7 powers or less

Of course it's the real FOV that counts. AFOV makes a difference to how it feels, but for all practical considerations (like seeing more birds in the periphery of the view, finding raptors in the sky, etc.), its the real field that counts.

And right, FOV is one of the main advantages of a 7x bin or 8x over a 10x. For example that's why I chose 8x over 10x for use in rainforest.

 

[Theo98]

Hi Chosun!

I've compared both SF10x42 and SV 10x50 directly in a shop. While I liked both very much, the bigger FOV, the reduced weight and overall better ergonomics of the SF made it the (to my eyes) clear winner.
I've bought the SF 10x42 and couldn't be happier with it. No problems so far!

I agree a preference for the reduced weight and better ergonomics in the 10x42SF could be desirable. However, since I've not had the opportunity yet to compare these with the 10x50SV's with my own eyes, I'm trying to understand how does an additional 5m FOV (@ 1000M) give a determinable difference (only +.5m @ 100m), or even much less at a close up focus? Maybe my figures are bogus, but seems the very flat field of the SV would almost even out these differences??

Ted

 

[Vespobuteo]

Hi Chosun!

I've compared both SF10x42 and SV 10x50 directly in a shop. While I liked both very much, the bigger FOV, the reduced weight and overall better ergonomics of the SF made it the (to my eyes) clear winner.
I've bought the SF 10x42 and couldn't be happier with it. No problems so far!

I came to the same conclusion,
always been put off by 10x42 bins before,
(ER, FOV etc)
but the SF is a game changer,
it feels more like a 8x or 8.5x
when using it,